Feb. 10, 2026

From Chaos to Compassion with Malisa Hepner: Healing Complex Trauma I Ep. 107

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Season 4

A life can begin in chaos and still choose compassion.

In this powerful episode of 1 in 3, Ingrid sits down with Malisa to explore healing complex trauma shaped by childhood neglect, addiction, and domestic violence. Together, they unpack trauma not as a single event, but as years without safety—and why healing often begins with who showed up when it hurt.

Malisa shares how perfectionism, achievement, and “being the golden child” became survival strategies for many Gen X and elder millennials, and how unspoken expectations can create lifelong patterns of shame and betrayal. Using the Finding Peace method, archetypes, and clear language for emotional wounds—loss, neglect, betrayal—Malisa shows how naming pain helps triggers finally make sense.

This conversation also dives into nervous system regulation after burnout. Instead of labeling every low cycle as depression, Malisa reframes it as depletion—learning to anticipate emotional highs and lows, meet exhaustion with rest and warmth, and build a repeatable self-care toolkit without judgment.

We talk about:

  • Healing complex trauma without self-blame
  • Nervous system regulation and burnout recovery
  • Shame, self-forgiveness, and emotional neglect
  • Somatic tools to return to the body
  • Breaking generational cycles and changing family scripts
  • Why your worth was never up for debate

This episode is for anyone healing from childhood trauma, emotional neglect, or chronic burnout—and learning how to love themselves with more ease.

If this resonates, follow 1 in 3, share with someone who needs it, and leave a review to help more people find these conversations.

Malisa’s Links:

https://www.1in3podcast.com/guests/malisa-hepner/

https://empoweredwithmalisahepner.org/

https://open.spotify.com/show/09lCA0fq3845NGMDwMvMRt?si=1fc6867ab8cc41d8&nd=1&dlsi=02a37d9fb8fc455e

https://www.instagram.com/malisa.hepner/?hl=en

https://linktr.ee/Mdhepner

1 in 3 is intended for mature audiences. Episodes contain explicit content and may be triggering to some.

Support the show

If you are in the United States and need help right now, call the national domestic violence hotline at 800-799-7233 or text the word “start” to 88788.

Contact 1 in 3:

Thank you for listening!

Cover art by Laura Swift Dahlke
Music by Tim Crowe

00:46 - Opening And Guest Setup

02:17 - Melissa’s Childhood And Foster Care

04:03 - Violence, Addiction, And Loss

07:28 - Complex Trauma And Lifelong Impact

12:02 - Middle-Of-The-Night Crises And Hypervigilance

16:38 - Making Peace Amid Generational Trauma

19:41 - Self-Forgiveness And Compassion Practices

23:04 - Breaking The Cycle: Spite, Grit, And Firsts

27:51 - Unhealed Women, Mother Wounds, And Culture

31:53 - It’s Not The Event, It’s Who Showed Up

35:36 - Choosing Healing After Suicidal Burnout

38:43 - Shame Archetypes And Finding Peace Method

43:33 - Loss, Betrayal, Neglect And Triggers

48:29 - Chemical Highs, Lows, And Nervous System Care

52:58 - Perfectionism, Golden Child Roles, And Boundaries

57:23 - Workbooks, Somatic Tools, And Access

01:00:57 - Melissa’s Podcasts And Community

01:03:07 - Closing Message On Worth And Self-Love

WEBVTT

00:00:23.500 --> 00:00:25.660
Hi Warriors, welcome to One and Three.

00:00:25.740 --> 00:00:26.859
I'm your host, Ingrid.

00:00:27.420 --> 00:00:33.019
Today I sit down with my guest, Melissa, for a really honest and vulnerable conversation.

00:00:33.259 --> 00:00:43.899
We talk about our own traumas, how those experiences can shape the way we move through the world, and how deeply they can affect our sense of self-worth.

00:00:44.299 --> 00:00:54.379
Melissa closes our conversation with a powerful message centered on self-love, self-forgiveness, and reclaiming your self-worth.

00:00:54.539 --> 00:00:55.820
Here's Melissa.

00:00:56.380 --> 00:00:57.340
Hi, Melissa.

00:00:57.420 --> 00:01:00.460
Welcome to One in Three, and thank you for joining me.

00:01:00.780 --> 00:01:02.700
Hello, thank you for having me.

00:01:02.780 --> 00:01:03.899
I'm really excited.

00:01:04.140 --> 00:01:08.539
I am too, and I'm I'm at the edge of my seat to figure out what we're going to talk about.

00:01:08.620 --> 00:01:18.700
And just before just before I hit record, Melissa and I were talking about how I did not take any notes on what we were going to say, and I just put down come as you are.

00:01:18.859 --> 00:01:21.259
So whatever that means, we're going to do it.

00:01:21.500 --> 00:01:26.939
Well, probably, I think, I think we probably talked a lot about, you know, a little of everything and a lot of nothing.

00:01:27.579 --> 00:01:29.340
That's how my conversations tend to go.

00:01:29.420 --> 00:01:30.299
So who knows?

00:01:30.620 --> 00:01:32.379
But all right, but we'll we'll figure it out.

00:01:32.459 --> 00:01:39.579
So before we get into our whatever we're talking about today, could you give a little background so we can all get to know you some?

00:01:39.980 --> 00:01:40.379
Yeah.

00:01:40.620 --> 00:01:44.299
Um, well, I listen, I don't give short-winded answers.

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I'm so sorry.

00:01:45.099 --> 00:01:49.900
So forgive whatever's about to come out of my mouth because it comes out different every time I answer this question.

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Let's see if I can make this succinct.

00:01:52.620 --> 00:01:52.939
Okay.

00:01:54.299 --> 00:02:08.540
I was in the hospital by two months old from a failure to thrive diagnosis when really it was just neglect because my parents were putting orange juice in my bottle.

00:02:08.780 --> 00:02:14.300
And that is a very good representation of how the next 18 years of my life went.

00:02:14.620 --> 00:02:17.019
Um, my parents were addicts.

00:02:17.259 --> 00:02:25.500
In my little unit, I had two brothers, one above me, one below, like a year, little little stair steps.

00:02:25.740 --> 00:02:29.900
May of 79, me, June of 80, my brother August of 81.

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My mom was very young.

00:02:31.979 --> 00:02:33.740
My dad was not much older than her.

00:02:33.900 --> 00:02:37.740
He had other children outside of that relationship before and after.

00:02:37.900 --> 00:02:39.819
But, you know, my unit was us three.

00:02:39.979 --> 00:02:51.180
We did a lot of back and forth between outside foster care, kinship foster care with my grandparents, and then eventually just my grandma because my grandpa left too.

00:02:51.419 --> 00:03:05.580
Um, and then when I was about eight years old, my mom decided that she was done, like essentially torturing us with her attempts at sobriety because it didn't last long.

00:03:05.659 --> 00:03:13.020
And and bless her, I mean, truly, I don't know how it could have, because in in the 80s, reunification was done very differently.

00:03:13.180 --> 00:03:22.460
And like, you can't give someone three children with now needs because of the trauma they've experienced when you've got five seconds of sobriety.

00:03:22.539 --> 00:03:24.219
Like that would never be done now.

00:03:24.379 --> 00:03:28.620
And she got zero outside support, just a lot of requirements.

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So there wasn't like therapy given to her, there wasn't parenting skills, there were parenting classes that sucked then.

00:03:35.500 --> 00:03:40.379
I hope they're better now, but you know, she just really didn't stand a chance, if I'm being honest.

00:03:40.699 --> 00:03:48.460
Um, so the relationship between my mom and my dad was violent, very, very violent.

00:03:48.620 --> 00:03:55.099
Um, they ended up never like really talking again after I was about six.

00:03:55.819 --> 00:03:59.099
But a lot of the violence really was my mom.

00:03:59.819 --> 00:04:03.819
Um my dad did very horrible things.

00:04:03.900 --> 00:04:15.979
I'm not gonna say he didn't, but I do think she had that thing where she couldn't feel safe with anything calm, and shh, alcohol made her psycho.

00:04:16.060 --> 00:04:19.740
So like I saw her initiate a lot of the violence.

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Um, and then you know, he once he didn't drink anymore and was away from my mom, he was never violent again, to my knowledge, because he was more of like an opiate guy.

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And then um, my mom was in relationship after relationship of domestic violence, of either her being the perpetrator or both the receiver and the perpetrator.

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So it was a really tumultuous time.

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And then my dad died when I was 15 of a morphine overdose, and then my mom died when I was 22 and pregnant with my first child um of complications related to hepatitis C and cirrhosis.

00:05:04.139 --> 00:05:07.819
And that was kind of the beginning for me.

00:05:07.980 --> 00:05:19.180
I I left my grandma's house at 18 thinking, yeah, I don't think my child had really had an impact on me because I wasn't living my pain out loud in the way that my siblings were.

00:05:19.420 --> 00:05:26.939
And so I I thought that was the only way to measure whether or not something had like this deep, profound impact on you.

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And I had a grandma with lots of narcissistic traits who was constantly minimal minimalizing my experience because I wasn't looking a certain way.

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I was the golden child, I was doing everything I could to get love and belonging in the way that I knew how.

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And so I really had to fight for space to have feelings because it was like, what do you that really affected your brothers because they started running away and doing drugs and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:05:52.540 --> 00:05:53.740
And I wasn't doing any of that.

00:05:53.899 --> 00:06:10.939
And so after my mom died, I felt like I I really in some ways I did put childhood to rest at that point because my focus really became the impossible task of being the perfect parent.

00:06:11.500 --> 00:06:14.459
And that was like my main focus.

00:06:14.779 --> 00:06:21.500
And then I kind of just trucked along doing my very best without any understanding of trauma.

00:06:21.740 --> 00:06:33.019
And then at 43 reached profound darkness, like burnout in a way that just left me making a plan to die because I had no skills to deal.

00:06:33.339 --> 00:06:42.779
I mean, and to be clear, I was a licensed social worker at the time, still am, but you know, like I but that this wasn't the stuff I was learning.

00:06:43.019 --> 00:06:58.060
And so, yeah, now I'm kind of here on the other side of all of that, and having figured out how all of those things did uh impact me profoundly and teaching others through my story.

00:06:58.220 --> 00:07:04.939
Yeah, I think it's that trauma and trauma can be defined in so many different ways from when you're a kid.

00:07:05.180 --> 00:07:07.180
It can be neglects.

00:07:07.259 --> 00:07:16.699
I mean, you mentioned neglects, but then you're also witnessing actual domestic violence, but that like rewires your brain, right?

00:07:16.860 --> 00:07:19.500
I mean, you're the you know more about this than I do.

00:07:19.740 --> 00:07:21.339
No, I'm sure I don't.

00:07:21.740 --> 00:07:32.860
Like, no, I'm uh this is that's the thing, is that like everything I've learned is like self-learning, and you know, like I don't come to these conversations as any kind of expert.

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Truly, this is my human experience.

00:07:35.180 --> 00:07:41.019
My book learning did not prepare me for figuring out how to want to live, you know.

00:07:41.500 --> 00:07:41.819
Yeah.

00:07:41.980 --> 00:07:44.379
Well, is that is that complex complex trauma?

00:07:44.540 --> 00:07:44.939
Am I right?

00:07:45.180 --> 00:07:45.420
Yes.

00:07:45.740 --> 00:07:55.259
The trauma that you experience as a child that sort of sets your pathways or your your path, whatever, uh, for the rest of your future.

00:07:55.420 --> 00:08:01.819
All of the person you become is related to all of that trauma that you experienced.

00:08:02.379 --> 00:08:08.939
Yeah, I mean, it's complex because it's not just a singular event or a short period of time.

00:08:09.259 --> 00:08:11.579
It was literally 18 years.

00:08:11.740 --> 00:08:16.860
I mean, I did not have a day of peace, that entire childhood.

00:08:17.100 --> 00:08:22.139
Then, even after 18, I'm getting calls from my mom.

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Uh, my boyfriend pushed me off the roof of this place.

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I almost died.

00:08:28.220 --> 00:08:30.300
I'm alive, but my hip is shattered.

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I'm having my hip replaced.

00:08:32.299 --> 00:08:35.100
Um, calls from the emergency room.

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Hey, your mom's here.

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And I don't even remember what happened to her that time, but I don't think it was super serious.

00:08:43.259 --> 00:08:54.620
But wanting me, an 18-year-old, to come and pick her up at like three o'clock in the morning and getting into a kind of an aggressive argument with the nurse because I was like, honey, I'm not, it's 3 a.m.

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I'm not coming to pick her up from the ER.

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And she's like, Well, what are we supposed to do?

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And I was like, You recognized and acknowledged when I picked up the phone that I am her daughter.

00:09:06.139 --> 00:09:07.580
I'm not her mother.

00:09:07.740 --> 00:09:13.100
I you can call her mother or you can send her to um detox.

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You can do whatever, but I'm not picking her up.

00:09:15.100 --> 00:09:16.779
I don't know where you're gonna discharge her.

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It it call after it was always, I mean, even just those middle of the night phone calls.

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Um, in my first book, I told a story about going to a crack house to get her out.

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This was post-hip injury, she's still recovering.

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And I showed up and because she called me crying because a man was hurting her.

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And at this point, I have such bravado and lack of concern for my own safety that I'm walking up in there and spooking a whole bunch of crackheads because they're like, Well, who are you calling?

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Da-da-da-da.

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That wasn't nice.

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But in my 18-year-old brain, they were crackheads, they were the enemy.

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You know what I mean?

00:09:58.139 --> 00:10:02.779
But like, um they're all jumping up, like, who are you calling?

00:10:02.860 --> 00:10:11.179
Because I'm calling my grandma to like apprise her of the situation and which hospital we're going to, and then having to like tell my mom to like, hey, do you have anything on you?

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Because you're about to go to the hospital.

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And she's like, Yeah, and then letting her go hide her crackpipe in a drainage ditch.

00:10:17.179 --> 00:10:20.539
I mean, like, there was not an ounce of peace.

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I mean, truly, at the moment when she died, she was incarcerated, and we had had um probably a year and a half of just peace within our relationship because you know, you there are opportunities to use in prison, but she chose not to.

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She really was working through a rehabilitation kind of path, um, and trying school again and you know, things like that.

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So, really, we were able to work all of it out.

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Like I'm there was nothing left unsaid at the time that she was in an emergency health crisis and and transported to the emergency room.

00:10:55.179 --> 00:10:59.340
And we had three weeks of uh ups and downs, and then she did ultimately die.

00:10:59.580 --> 00:11:05.019
But um, I forgot where I was going with that.

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I'm sorry.

00:11:05.820 --> 00:11:19.820
Oh, at the end of that three weeks, when it was very obvious that this was probably not gonna go the way we wanted to, I was pregnant again, like very early first trimester with my first, like I remember just like throwing up outside the hospital one day.

00:11:20.059 --> 00:11:31.659
Um, and I remember kind of thinking, like, I'm okay letting go if she's just gonna get out and do this again.

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Like, cause I had hinged so many hopes upon her rehabilitation and release, right?

00:11:36.860 --> 00:11:37.820
Like, I'm her kid.

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I'm never gonna stop hoping that things get different or better for us.

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And so I remember just thinking, like, I think maybe this is for the best.

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Like, let's let her go in peace at a really good time for us, like where there are no apologies needed.

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Like, we are in such a solid place, and I know for sure I will not let her do that to my children, get to know her and love her, and then be betrayed by her over and over.

00:12:07.419 --> 00:12:14.620
And so I just got like really at peace with the idea of like, I think maybe it's just time to let this go, you know?

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And so then it was kind of like, oh, all of these things come up over and over and over when you're raising your own children, just the narratives and trying to like what was crap and what was not, and most of it was, and is there anything I should hold on to?

00:12:34.059 --> 00:12:36.779
You know, that is too much, right?

00:12:37.259 --> 00:12:44.460
Do you like that's do you are you aware if your mom had any of her own trauma before?

00:12:44.940 --> 00:12:47.500
Oh god, yes, yes, so much.

00:12:47.820 --> 00:12:54.220
So my grandpa, that's why I was so when my grandpa divorced my grandma, I was like 11 years old.

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Um, up till then, he had only like spoken to me a couple of times in my life, and I lived in the same house with him, like horrible person.

00:13:02.220 --> 00:13:03.740
So they had five children together.

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My mom was the baby.

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My grandma was a very, very unhealed person, also.

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I mean, he talked her into, he was like 23 when my grandma married him, talked her into fudging stuff and running away from home at 15 years old from Virginia to Oklahoma.

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So my grandma married him.

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Domestic violence started on the way to Oklahoma, like horrible domestic violence.

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My grandpa was a sadist, truly, and a lot of other things.

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And then she got pregnant immediately.

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I don't, you know how that goes.

00:13:39.179 --> 00:13:41.980
And so he's abusing her.

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She's pregnant, they have five kids.

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My mom's the youngest.

00:13:45.100 --> 00:13:48.379
So much stuff happened to them in their childhood.

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And then my mom meets my dad when she was 14, and the cycle continued.

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And my dad and her were violent.

00:13:59.580 --> 00:14:04.299
Um, lots of violent things happened to her because of the company she was keeping.

00:14:04.460 --> 00:14:12.779
Not because I'm not blaming her, but she was surrounded by people who were just out of their mind on drugs all the time.

00:14:13.100 --> 00:14:21.899
Um, I can't really even like describe it because uh most of the information I have about that time in her life is from my grandma who hated my dad.

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And so that was the way she like kind of painted that whole thing.

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It was supposedly like biker gang situation.

00:14:28.460 --> 00:14:29.340
I don't really know.

00:14:29.500 --> 00:14:36.940
I they she's she said so much that I just don't know is true, and I wasn't brave enough to like clarify with my dad before he died.

00:14:37.179 --> 00:14:48.779
So, um, but yeah, my mom, bless her heart, she really like she had so much trauma, so much, and then even more post my dad.

00:14:48.860 --> 00:14:51.659
I mean, it was like traumatic situation after traumatic situation.

00:14:51.820 --> 00:14:54.860
I mean, bless her heart, she didn't have a day of peace either.

00:14:55.179 --> 00:14:57.419
Yeah, that's uh that's so common, right?

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When you have a parent who's lived such trauma and they're unhealed from that trauma.

00:15:03.259 --> 00:15:11.740
And I'm not this isn't this isn't like a get out of jail free for abusers like, oh, I had this abusive past, so I get to abuse them too.

00:15:12.059 --> 00:15:23.820
But it's instances like that of just this unhealed trauma and then so young to start having a family at such a young age, you're still a kid yourself for both your mom and your abusive.

00:15:24.139 --> 00:15:27.580
Which is also a trauma in itself to be a teenage mother.

00:15:27.820 --> 00:15:39.179
And, you know, just as a caveat here, like you're hearing me tell this story from a place of having made peace with the fact that these were who my caregivers were.

00:15:39.259 --> 00:15:39.899
You know what I mean?

00:15:40.059 --> 00:15:46.059
Like there, listen, a year ago, I was still raging about my narcissistic grandma.

00:15:46.139 --> 00:15:48.059
I mean, that piece has just recently come.

00:15:48.299 --> 00:15:55.899
My mom, I would I've been able to give her a little bit of an easier time over the last probably seven years or something.

00:15:56.139 --> 00:16:03.980
Um, my dad, because he's been gone so long, you know, but he had his own trauma, I mean, sexual abuse, both of them, you know, like so much stuff.

00:16:04.059 --> 00:16:07.740
So yeah, I I didn't give any of them a pass, which I'm not saying to you.

00:16:08.220 --> 00:16:16.379
Um, it's and it's more like, hey, if you're still raging at your parents or your abuser or whatever, that's where you're at, man.

00:16:16.460 --> 00:16:16.860
That's all right.

00:16:16.940 --> 00:16:18.539
I'm not gonna tell you to be any different.

00:16:18.700 --> 00:16:43.899
But this is for me, it's been just like, you know, each step of healing has allowed me to release a lot of that pain because for me, healing has been so much of just coming home to myself, um, learning that unconditional love and positive regard for me, which allows me to extend so much compassion to myself for anything.

00:16:44.220 --> 00:16:53.340
And then as you grow into that, you start to see how like the people who have done things really aren't that different than you at all.

00:16:53.500 --> 00:16:55.419
And I'm not that different than anyone else.

00:16:55.580 --> 00:17:10.619
And believe me, I was, you know, verbally abusing my spouse before healing and and probably emotionally and have done plenty of emotionally abusive things to my family, not on purpose, had no idea that that's what I was doing.

00:17:10.779 --> 00:17:13.340
I just knew I was protecting myself, you know.

00:17:13.500 --> 00:17:29.740
So if I have to, if I'm gonna learn to forgive myself, that which is literally the hardest thing to do is to forgive yourself, then it's very easy for me to extend that to my my caregivers because they had their own their own stories, you know.

00:17:30.140 --> 00:17:30.539
Yeah.

00:17:30.779 --> 00:17:45.420
And it's if you carry that hate, so um, you know, you're looking at your your parents, the ones who and your grandparent grandmother, but you look at any victim who's suffered any form of neglect or abuse.

00:17:45.579 --> 00:18:01.339
I guess neglect is actually abuse, but um, it's easy to carry that resentment and that hate, but then it also weighs you down and it makes it more difficult to heal, like you said, yourself.

00:18:01.579 --> 00:18:05.339
And yeah, I mean, there's there's a space for the hate and the resentment.

00:18:05.420 --> 00:18:14.460
And I think that you need to feel that you shouldn't ignore it by all means feel it, but then also understand that if you harbor that, that just lives inside you.

00:18:14.619 --> 00:18:21.579
So, what do you think, considering the trauma that you're the generational trauma of your family?

00:18:21.819 --> 00:18:26.460
How did you, how does one recognize that?

00:18:26.539 --> 00:18:34.299
How does one break through or break free of that and decide I don't want this cycle to continue on?

00:18:34.380 --> 00:18:35.579
I need to heal myself.

00:18:35.819 --> 00:18:38.940
How did you how did you come about, I guess, recognizing that?

00:18:39.259 --> 00:18:48.380
Yeah, I think um I'm gonna give you a really woo-woo answer to this.

00:18:48.700 --> 00:19:10.299
So when I was like um four or five, one of the times my mom had left and went wherever it was she went, uh, she had been gone a few weeks, and I was at my grandma's and I was I was crying because I missed her, and I was kind of praying and just like just kind of desperate to feel better.

00:19:10.700 --> 00:19:21.660
And I just remember hearing like this is gonna be a part of your story, but you don't have to be this.

00:19:22.059 --> 00:19:28.299
Like, you you take this and you do what you need to do with it, but you're gonna change the world with this.

00:19:28.859 --> 00:19:42.700
And now looking back, now with my current set of beliefs in spirituality, I really feel like that was my highest self, just like walking me through, you know, and I had other circumstances like that too.

00:19:42.779 --> 00:20:01.740
When I was like 14, I had I was um I was at middle school and I saw this like Miss Oklahoma type lady giving a speech in the gym to some younger classes, and um just telling her story, and you know, it's a motivational speaker type thing.

00:20:01.900 --> 00:20:08.779
And I like was overwhelmed with this like vision of my life and like, okay, girl, so your parents are gonna die.

00:20:08.859 --> 00:20:10.539
This was the year before my dad died.

00:20:10.779 --> 00:20:14.700
Your parents are gonna die, like you're gonna use your story, blah, blah, blah.

00:20:14.859 --> 00:20:17.980
Same kind of affirmation of like what I was told when I was younger.

00:20:18.140 --> 00:20:29.819
Again, I think it was just my higher self, but it was like this like spiritual download that it was like wild that I didn't really talk about for a long time because you know, schizophrenia is in my family, so I didn't want anyone to think I was crazy.

00:20:30.059 --> 00:20:41.660
But um, yeah, so those two things combined, but also I operated from a place of spite forever until healing.

00:20:41.819 --> 00:20:46.059
And so, okay, I told you my grandma had five kids, four of them were women.

00:20:46.220 --> 00:20:49.500
Unhealed women are cruel, okay.

00:20:49.740 --> 00:21:01.579
So then these three little aunts of mine, I spent a lot of time being just criticized to death, either talking about me, to me, whatever.

00:21:01.900 --> 00:21:06.460
And somewhere along the way in childhood, I was like, you know how we're gonna do this?

00:21:06.619 --> 00:21:09.740
I'm gonna be better than every one of you.

00:21:09.980 --> 00:21:25.819
And part of my protective factor really was putting on this armor of like, I'm gonna be the first, I'm gonna be the best, I'm gonna so a lot of golden child type stuff, you know, like if I can achieve, I'm worthy of love and belonging.

00:21:25.900 --> 00:21:28.299
Um, but really from this place of spite.

00:21:28.460 --> 00:21:29.660
Like, I'm gonna show you.

00:21:29.819 --> 00:21:38.380
Because also when we when we were put in official kinship foster care with my grandma, we um we received a lot of education.

00:21:38.539 --> 00:21:47.819
And so I got a lot of statistics shown to me about what is likely to happen to foster girls, you know, by the time they're 18.

00:21:47.980 --> 00:21:50.059
And so I was like, oh hell no.

00:21:50.220 --> 00:21:57.420
So between like wanting to prove the statistics wrong and wanting to prove my family wrong, that became that was the fire that lit me.

00:21:57.500 --> 00:22:00.779
Like, truly, I was motivated by spite so much.

00:22:00.940 --> 00:22:02.220
It drove me.

00:22:02.460 --> 00:22:06.059
I wanted to be the first to go to college in my family.

00:22:06.220 --> 00:22:10.700
Now, when I say that, I'm not talking about on my dad's side of the family.

00:22:10.859 --> 00:22:13.099
I always have to say that in case they like it.

00:22:13.660 --> 00:22:15.259
I'm scared to talk about them.

00:22:15.339 --> 00:22:18.460
So, like, it don't want them to hear me say that and then come for me.

00:22:18.539 --> 00:22:22.460
Okay, but um, and I don't really even think about them as part of family.

00:22:22.539 --> 00:22:23.259
I like my little new.

00:22:23.579 --> 00:22:25.259
Nuclear family was my mom's side.

00:22:25.420 --> 00:22:28.619
But um yeah, so I was the first.

00:22:28.779 --> 00:22:31.420
And I was the first to get an associate's.

00:22:31.500 --> 00:22:33.259
I was the first to get a bachelor's.

00:22:33.339 --> 00:22:35.019
I was the first to get a master's.

00:22:35.180 --> 00:22:44.619
And then I've only had I think one of my aunts did nursing after I got my master's.

00:22:44.940 --> 00:22:46.220
I think that's it still.

00:22:46.380 --> 00:22:49.259
I can't remember, but I I mean, I think that's it.

00:22:49.500 --> 00:22:51.980
Um, so like that was a huge force for me.

00:22:52.140 --> 00:22:53.980
It's like, yeah, and I'm better than you guys.

00:22:54.059 --> 00:22:55.019
And I did think I was.

00:22:55.180 --> 00:22:55.980
I mean, truly.

00:22:56.220 --> 00:23:03.579
Like, but how else are you gonna protect yourself and and like also judge success if unless you can compare it to your family, you know?

00:23:03.740 --> 00:23:05.740
Like that's that, but that was the only way I operate.

00:23:05.819 --> 00:23:08.220
I didn't know how to have any sort of authenticity in my life.

00:23:08.539 --> 00:23:10.220
So that was long-winded.

00:23:10.299 --> 00:23:12.700
I'm sorry, Ingrid, but yes, that's how.

00:23:13.980 --> 00:23:15.420
I mean, we're both long-winded.

00:23:15.500 --> 00:23:16.700
That's why I don't have any notes.

00:23:16.940 --> 00:23:18.779
We were probably too busy talking.

00:23:19.259 --> 00:23:21.660
And I guess that's why we both have podcasts, right?

00:23:21.819 --> 00:23:23.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:23:23.339 --> 00:23:29.180
Well, I was going to say that the unhealed women are vicious, so vicious.

00:23:29.339 --> 00:23:30.779
I uh I agree with you.

00:23:30.940 --> 00:23:39.819
And if you look at serial killers, I believe that most serial killers had shitty moms.

00:23:40.460 --> 00:23:41.900
Oh, absolutely.

00:23:42.299 --> 00:23:42.940
No food.

00:23:43.900 --> 00:23:44.140
Right.

00:23:44.220 --> 00:23:55.500
And this is not, I'm not trying to downplay a gender and say that women belong in the kitchen and are supposed to tend to the children, but genetically, we are the caregivers.

00:23:55.900 --> 00:24:07.099
We are the ones who are supposed to nurture and where babies, children, young adults learn coping skills and comfort from their moms.

00:24:07.180 --> 00:24:12.940
And when you don't have that, that can lead to a whole mess of things.

00:24:13.180 --> 00:24:45.579
And you know, for you, it sounds like you just happen to have better insight and you were open more to the universe, your higher self, whatever it is that people want to say it is, that I think if you allow yourself to be more open to things, you are going to feel whether you have that schizophrenic voice telling you what it is, or a sensation of what you're supposed to do or what your purpose is.

00:24:45.980 --> 00:24:48.619
Yeah, I mean, and at the time I would have said God.

00:24:48.700 --> 00:24:50.940
I was super religious, grew up in Oklahoma.

00:24:51.099 --> 00:24:56.380
Like at 18, if anyone had asked that question, I'd have been like, God, God did it for me, He got me through.

00:24:56.619 --> 00:25:03.660
But yeah, I think I felt that sense of purpose very, very young.

00:25:03.819 --> 00:25:08.700
Like, in some ways, I'm so glad to have had some of the exposure I did to the Bible.

00:25:08.779 --> 00:25:20.779
I have lots of religious trauma, but you know, some of the stories, like I remember being really affected by the King Solomon story, which now is kind of just whatever, but I just I wanted to be wise.

00:25:21.019 --> 00:25:25.660
I wanted to look beneath the surface from a very young age.

00:25:25.819 --> 00:25:28.779
I didn't want, probably some of that was protection.

00:25:28.859 --> 00:25:36.140
I didn't want to be fooled by people, but I also I just I wanted to be wise and I wanted to be patient.

00:25:36.539 --> 00:25:38.460
That's been a lifelong journey.

00:25:38.619 --> 00:25:48.380
Um, but yeah, and I and also, you know, to your point, I think women are a byproduct of a very messed up system.

00:25:48.779 --> 00:26:08.859
So, you know, like all of us have our own unconscious stuff that we're just giving to our kids, to our friends, to our family, you know, whatever, because of the system that we have been put in and the limits and and whatever of that system.

00:26:09.500 --> 00:26:30.220
But yeah, I think whether or not women or mothers should be the one, the like sole person to provide that love, that nurturing, that care, a child craves that from their mother.

00:26:30.460 --> 00:26:43.180
So what I've learned about my trauma and trauma in general really is about the fact that it doesn't even matter what the trauma was, it was who showed up when you experienced it.

00:26:43.339 --> 00:26:45.019
How did they help you through it?

00:26:45.259 --> 00:26:50.779
Like, I hate when people hear my story and then feel the need to minimize their trauma.

00:26:50.940 --> 00:27:06.700
No, honey, the whole point is none of us, if let me make this very clear if you are Gen X, elder millennial, or older, nobody cared about you or for you the way you deserved.

00:27:07.019 --> 00:27:07.660
Period.

00:27:08.380 --> 00:27:09.019
Period.

00:27:09.420 --> 00:27:31.819
And so whether it was you messed up the first word at your spelling bee and was like horrified by that, and everyone told you to quit being a crybaby, or someone made you like always be way too huggy with strangers or or distant relatives, whatever the case was.

00:27:31.900 --> 00:27:37.819
And I mean, it's all of the above for most of the women out, you know, like that the age group I'm I'm saying.

00:27:38.059 --> 00:27:45.660
Whatever it is, nobody had anyone to come in and help them through those pivotal emotional developmental milestones.

00:27:45.740 --> 00:27:47.019
And that's the point.

00:27:47.420 --> 00:27:53.420
So, yes, crazy moms will beget some crazy children.

00:27:53.579 --> 00:28:03.259
I mean, I really labeled myself very crazy for so long because my brain was so loud and so ugly for so many years.

00:28:03.579 --> 00:28:11.819
But I think it's because we were begging for something that no one had the capacity to give.

00:28:12.859 --> 00:28:13.180
Yeah.

00:28:13.420 --> 00:28:21.500
And uh as a Gen Xer myself, I will say I remember with COVID, we all thought we've got this, we've been alone our entire lives.

00:28:22.059 --> 00:28:22.299
Right.

00:28:22.539 --> 00:28:24.779
We know how to seclude.

00:28:25.180 --> 00:28:31.339
Was there a moment where you thought you needed to actively try to heal yourself?

00:28:32.059 --> 00:28:32.700
Yeah.

00:28:33.099 --> 00:28:40.940
Okay, so in about 2016 or 17, I started to hear about trauma, okay, and like nervous system regulation.

00:28:41.019 --> 00:28:43.420
And God knows I gave it the old college try.

00:28:43.500 --> 00:28:47.660
I really did because I knew I was like a spaz and a in kind of psycho.

00:28:47.740 --> 00:28:51.579
Like I was just in better terms, I was an extremely reactive person.

00:28:51.900 --> 00:29:03.019
Um, but I didn't like understand that I was so dysregulated because there was this emotional component and I didn't even know how to unpack any of that.

00:29:03.259 --> 00:29:14.700
So I trucked along until you know I hit the mental health crisis and then literally wanted to die, and then knew that if I wanted to live, something had to give.

00:29:14.779 --> 00:29:21.420
Like I didn't know what that was, but the things that I did know that were very tangible was I hated my job.

00:29:21.500 --> 00:29:28.539
And I mean, when I say hated, well, I was working in education, and education is a very difficult field for so many reasons.

00:29:28.700 --> 00:29:39.259
But the primary reason for me was the unhealed women, and the toxicity that that created for me personally was just I just reached capacity and I couldn't anymore.

00:29:39.420 --> 00:29:40.859
So I knew I needed to leave the job.

00:29:41.019 --> 00:29:41.980
I left the job.

00:29:42.220 --> 00:30:01.660
Um, I started to try to tap into any creative resources that I had within myself to learn how to like live in a flow state, like truly from about November of 2023 to June 24, I was just doing my best.

00:30:01.740 --> 00:30:04.619
I was just trying really hard to figure it out.

00:30:04.779 --> 00:30:18.700
Um, but I started my podcast um at the end of April in 2024, and um it was such a gift because the guests that that came on kind of helped me so much.

00:30:18.859 --> 00:30:26.779
But the first one that really just like blew my whole world wide wide open and changed my life forever.

00:30:26.940 --> 00:30:29.819
Her name is Jenny Kempton and she lives in Arizona.

00:30:29.900 --> 00:30:33.099
Um, she's a a cousin of my husband, actually.

00:30:33.339 --> 00:30:38.220
But I found her on Facebook and um I had her on.

00:30:38.299 --> 00:30:46.059
She works for a guy named Troy Love in Arizona who developed the finding peace method and wrote this book called the Finding Peace Workbook.

00:30:46.299 --> 00:30:54.539
And so she I happened to see her as like a people you may know, because I had just like accepted a friend request, I guess, from her brother.

00:30:54.700 --> 00:31:00.940
And I I looked on her page and um there was only one public post, and I was just like, oh, I want to talk to her.

00:31:01.019 --> 00:31:08.220
So I asked her to be on the show, having no idea what we would talk about, but you know, um, but you know the early days when you're like begging people to come on.

00:31:08.460 --> 00:31:11.740
Um, and it does, and and the show has no real rhyme or reason.

00:31:11.819 --> 00:31:14.140
You're just begging people to come on and have a conversation with you.

00:31:14.299 --> 00:31:21.259
Like I had it, I wanted it to be about vulnerability in the beginning, but like I, because that was literally the only thing I had was learning to be vulnerable.

00:31:21.339 --> 00:31:23.579
I had no idea like what else was wrong with me.

00:31:23.740 --> 00:31:29.339
So anyway, Troy broke shame down into different archaeotypes, much like internal family systems.

00:31:29.579 --> 00:31:34.299
And I think that's probably where he drew this from, if I were to guess, but that did it.

00:31:34.460 --> 00:31:41.900
That was the piece that just like helped me so much because I finally understood that shame was what was creating all the noise in my head.

00:31:42.140 --> 00:31:49.819
Shame, because I was this incredibly reactive person, and that was the part I carried so much shame about because my grandma tortured me about it my whole life.

00:31:49.900 --> 00:31:55.900
Like, you're so mean, you have the darkest heart, you're not a good person, your brother's a better person than you are.

00:31:55.980 --> 00:32:01.339
He'd give the shirt off his back and you're selfish and you're blah blah blah because I had boundaries, you know.

00:32:01.579 --> 00:32:17.259
Um, and so all the shame that I carried, and then and then and then as it got worse, just like you know, the times I'm screaming at my children, I'm just hearing all the shame narratives, you know, but they would fight with each other, the little archaeotypes would be like, Melissa, you know better.

00:32:17.420 --> 00:32:26.940
And then the royal would come in and be like, Yeah, but I wouldn't have done that if they hadn't done it, and then the judge wants to come back and be like, Yeah, but and then there's these other archaeotypes, it's a whole thing.

00:32:27.180 --> 00:32:29.980
And that was, I was like, that that's what's happening.

00:32:30.140 --> 00:32:30.859
That's what's happening.

00:32:31.019 --> 00:32:32.460
Oh my gosh, I'm not crazy.

00:32:32.619 --> 00:32:42.140
Like, there is an actual explanation for what is happening, and then um it also breaks down kind of the development of your wounding, it helps you like unpack.

00:32:42.299 --> 00:32:57.420
Like, I remember crying through the loss section because of course I've had so much loss in my life, but I had never really stopped to like hold the fact that I lost so many possessions throughout my childhood, you know.

00:32:57.500 --> 00:33:05.579
Like I remember one Christmas, my grandma was really sweet about always making sure we had Christmas, like no matter who we were with.

00:33:05.740 --> 00:33:09.019
And one Christmas we we had all the stuff.

00:33:09.180 --> 00:33:15.420
Um, and then, you know, because we were left unsupervised a little bit, I think she was passed out in the bedroom.

00:33:15.579 --> 00:33:26.140
My brothers and I kind of just burnt our house down because there was a stove, the electric stove, and my mom was using it to heat the house.

00:33:26.380 --> 00:33:29.660
And you know, the coil will get red on the electric stove.

00:33:29.819 --> 00:33:32.460
And we were walking past, I think we had been cleaning even.

00:33:32.539 --> 00:33:38.539
We were like four, five, and six, or five, six, and seven, but I think four, five, and six.

00:33:38.700 --> 00:33:44.700
My older brother and I were walking past, I'm pretty sure we'd been cleaning, and we were like, oh no, the stove is red.

00:33:44.859 --> 00:33:47.180
Like, that's gonna make mom really mad.

00:33:47.980 --> 00:33:55.019
I know I'll put this newspaper over it and cover it, and then we won't be in trouble.

00:33:55.259 --> 00:33:57.099
Having no idea that that's gonna start a fire.

00:33:57.180 --> 00:34:02.539
Well, it did, and then we had way too much fun with the fire, and there went the house.

00:34:02.779 --> 00:34:05.500
Um, too much fun with the fire.

00:34:06.059 --> 00:34:06.940
We really did.

00:34:07.019 --> 00:34:09.900
It was kind of, and then also the guilt I felt over that.

00:34:09.980 --> 00:34:16.859
Like, oh, there was so much related to this one incident that just like I had to like figure out and process.

00:34:17.099 --> 00:34:23.019
But all of those things that we had, like we had had a brand new bunk bed, you know, all these things like just gone.

00:34:23.340 --> 00:34:36.059
Or, you know, my grandma comes to a house that we lived in with my mom and realizes we've now been here a week by ourselves because mom left, and so she has to pack us up.

00:34:36.300 --> 00:34:40.619
She can't pack this entire house up, and there goes every ounce of our belongings.

00:34:40.780 --> 00:34:48.380
So things like that happened a lot, and just never processing it left this huge loss wound.

00:34:48.460 --> 00:34:50.139
And then both my parents are dead.

00:34:50.300 --> 00:35:06.619
So, like, and then my grandma died, and you know, there's all this stuff, and so just even I mean, it wasn't like painful, it was just like, oh, that, you know, that hurts a little bit to think back and wow, I'm relieved to see how this wound was made.

00:35:06.940 --> 00:35:10.539
And, you know, I learned that betrayal was my biggest wound.

00:35:10.780 --> 00:35:13.260
Betrayal and then neglect is the close second.

00:35:13.500 --> 00:35:21.099
Where I I had recognized at certain points in arguments with my husband where it felt like betrayal, but that didn't make sense.

00:35:21.340 --> 00:35:28.619
Like, why does you not taking my opinion over someone else's feel so much betrayal, you know?

00:35:28.860 --> 00:35:38.699
And so what I would do instead of trying to figure that out is just rage and start a fight because I knew what to do with that.

00:35:38.860 --> 00:35:40.300
And then we could calm down.

00:35:40.460 --> 00:35:42.699
I could apologize for my behavior.

00:35:43.019 --> 00:35:45.179
That would be the resolution to the argument.

00:35:45.260 --> 00:35:49.739
Nothing was really fixed ever, but continue on until the next fight.

00:35:49.900 --> 00:35:52.139
But betrayal consumed me.

00:35:52.300 --> 00:35:55.099
It was every minute of every day.

00:35:55.340 --> 00:36:03.179
And that's why I kind of realized like, oh, anyone in my generation is gonna have a big betrayal wound because we created all these expectations.

00:36:03.260 --> 00:36:05.739
And that's just what we, you know, what we did.

00:36:05.820 --> 00:36:19.260
It's what we were taught, honestly, because we were raised by also a bunch of codependent and meshed people pleasers, too, who taught us to value the comfort of others over our own peace.

00:36:19.500 --> 00:36:23.980
And so what we do is we run around loving people in the way that we want to be loved.

00:36:24.219 --> 00:36:28.460
And when we do that, we're creating a social contract full of expectations.

00:36:28.539 --> 00:36:31.820
So the second that expectation isn't met, betrayal.

00:36:31.980 --> 00:36:38.059
Well, honey, if you have all these unrealistic expectations, then you're gonna feel betrayed all the time.

00:36:38.380 --> 00:36:47.019
And then neglect for me, you know, I feel like neglect carries this narrative of I have the weight of the world on my shoulders and no one to help me carry it.

00:36:47.260 --> 00:36:57.820
First of all, a lot of times that's true in childhood when we had these parents who didn't, you know, want to know how to meet us where we were.

00:36:58.139 --> 00:37:01.659
Be brave, quit crying, or I'll give you something to cry about.

00:37:01.900 --> 00:37:05.900
You uh, you know, all the all the little sayings that we got.

00:37:06.059 --> 00:37:10.780
Um, those taught us like, oh, okay, I have to figure this out on my own.

00:37:10.940 --> 00:37:15.340
Well, you know, I don't think that little babies are really good at figuring things out on their own.

00:37:15.500 --> 00:37:18.780
So those coping skills are kind of what we carry on into adulthood.

00:37:19.019 --> 00:37:32.219
And so just learning, like, oh, I recognized how many fights we had in my marriage because of that feeling of like, but you're never here when I need you, which wasn't true.

00:37:32.380 --> 00:37:46.699
But the times that he wasn't there, that like I actually, you know, like a real thing, like um one time early on in this learning, um, my dog had a seizure at home, and I was like the only adult in the situation.

00:37:47.019 --> 00:37:50.460
Listen, that not enough narrative can get really loud for me.

00:37:50.619 --> 00:37:54.300
And so I really was like, I can't deal with this by myself.

00:37:54.460 --> 00:38:00.300
Okay, well, the man just happens to be at work while this happened, and you know, I do all of my work from home.

00:38:00.539 --> 00:38:07.099
So, like, it's not his fault he wasn't here, but ooh, in my mind, I'm you neglected me.

00:38:07.260 --> 00:38:18.780
Like you, you're just never here when I need you, because I can remember all the times that I was left to deal with something by myself, which is really scary for someone who feels like they're not enough, you know?

00:38:19.019 --> 00:38:24.139
And so the not enough kind of plays into that neglect wound.

00:38:24.219 --> 00:38:33.260
And so just learning that stuff, having a a name for it, a face for it, a shape for it, a texture, even, you know, like whatever it is.

00:38:33.659 --> 00:38:35.179
Okay, I can recognize this.

00:38:35.340 --> 00:38:52.539
Well, then when you recognize it, it's easy when it comes up to be like, oh, because I had to learn there's a huge difference between I feel betrayed and you betrayed me, because that, you know, you know, and then there's the whole conversation of victim consciousness, which was a real big deal for me.

00:38:52.699 --> 00:38:57.739
But yeah, so just kind of learning that stuff really, I mean, that was the beginning.

00:38:57.900 --> 00:39:05.340
And then, and then I've of course, you know, met a bunch of spiritual folk, met a bunch of therapists, met, you know, and I just learned something new all the time.

00:39:05.659 --> 00:39:25.500
But truly, it was the point at which I had decided I've tried for 43 years to get this figured out, and it doesn't look like I'm gonna be able to, and decided that my children would be better off without me at that point, that I was like scared into because I was very serious about that.

00:39:25.659 --> 00:39:29.500
Like the first time in my life made a plan, all of the things.

00:39:29.820 --> 00:39:42.380
And because I chose a date that was kind of far off because you know, I wanted to get through birthdays and holidays, um it gave me a chance to be like, oh, honey, like you need some help.

00:39:42.619 --> 00:39:51.019
And I had no trust in the mental health community because I think it was just a protective layer.

00:39:51.179 --> 00:39:53.900
I had never really shared any of my stuff with anyone.

00:39:54.059 --> 00:39:57.980
I had shared lots of stories, but in a very disconnected way.

00:39:58.139 --> 00:40:09.579
I wasn't connected to any of those stories, and so I I'm only just now working through the ways that I really have so many protective layers between me and everyone else.

00:40:09.739 --> 00:40:15.500
And so I've really worked on like breaking those down, but I didn't trust anyone with my stuff.

00:40:15.659 --> 00:40:16.300
I just didn't.

00:40:16.460 --> 00:40:27.659
And so it really was just me figuring it out step by step, moment by moment, getting to the point where like I felt peace for the first time in my life.

00:40:28.219 --> 00:40:40.539
Yeah, well, so many things I thought of that I wanted to mention, but one thing I wanted to point out is the the healing through podcasting has been insane for me as well.

00:40:40.699 --> 00:40:47.980
The guests that have come on, at the amount that I've learned, the amount of insight that I've gained is just it's so cool.

00:40:48.219 --> 00:40:52.539
So I wanted to say that I appreciate that and I I totally get that.

00:40:52.699 --> 00:41:02.059
I will say for the our generation, like you mentioned, the neglect that and mom, I know you listened to this podcast.

00:41:02.219 --> 00:41:07.980
I know this is not a direct hit at you, but this is just the generation that we just is what it is.

00:41:08.219 --> 00:41:09.659
Yeah, it's it's what it was.

00:41:09.820 --> 00:41:21.260
You know, like we we would come home and my sister and I, I was taking care of my little sister, and we were reheating food and we were figuring out how to do our get our homework done.

00:41:21.579 --> 00:41:24.059
And it's that's just part of it.

00:41:24.139 --> 00:41:30.860
Uh oh, another thing I wanted to say quick before I go on that tangent is my my sister and I actually almost also burnt our house down.

00:41:30.940 --> 00:41:35.980
So that might be that was we did my dad was asleep.

00:41:36.300 --> 00:41:41.579
I don't know what time this was, but we were obsessed with fire for whatever reason.

00:41:41.739 --> 00:41:47.659
And we we used to love to stick our fingers in if there's a candle lit, we love to stick our fingers into the wax.

00:41:47.980 --> 00:41:50.460
Yes, so weird.

00:41:50.699 --> 00:41:51.820
What is wrong with us?

00:41:51.980 --> 00:41:53.260
We did that too.

00:41:53.579 --> 00:42:13.260
I don't know, I don't know, but there was she was moving one candle over to somewhere else, and she had a tissue paper underneath it to catch any of the wax that would drip, and of course it dripped and it burnt her hand, so she like let go of the the tissue and the tissue caught on fire.

00:42:13.340 --> 00:42:16.699
So she dropped everything onto our couch.

00:42:16.940 --> 00:42:18.780
Oh the couch caught on fire.

00:42:19.340 --> 00:42:20.860
The couch caught on fire.

00:42:21.099 --> 00:42:23.900
So I'm running to the door.

00:42:24.059 --> 00:42:28.860
You know, we were taught things in school of like, don't say, like, hey dad, wake up.

00:42:28.940 --> 00:42:32.059
You just start yelling, fire, fire, fire.

00:42:32.940 --> 00:42:34.219
Yeah, wake him up.

00:42:34.380 --> 00:42:38.059
Um, by the time he came out, we had they made stuff different back then.

00:42:38.139 --> 00:42:41.659
So we had a nice fire retardant couch.

00:42:41.980 --> 00:42:46.300
So it burnt a big hole in the arm, but it burnt out.

00:42:46.539 --> 00:42:50.139
So our house did not burn up, but thank goodness.

00:42:50.460 --> 00:42:53.179
We did, we did almost, I guess.

00:42:53.420 --> 00:43:09.420
But okay, so back to uh the more serious topic of the um like feeling neglected as a kid, I as an adult, I have I've would visualize what I call the pits of despair.

00:43:09.500 --> 00:43:16.539
And I think that I've taken that a little bit from the princess bride, and then maybe there's some Star Wars stuff in there too.

00:43:16.860 --> 00:43:26.059
But if something happened where I didn't reach what I thought I should be, then I would go down into the pits of despair.

00:43:26.219 --> 00:43:27.579
Failed relationships.

00:43:27.900 --> 00:43:33.179
I would go into the pits of despair, of like just self-loathing.

00:43:33.579 --> 00:43:34.460
And it was awful.

00:43:34.539 --> 00:43:35.980
It was a horrible place to be.

00:43:36.139 --> 00:43:38.940
It wasn't nice to be there, but it was familiar.

00:43:39.099 --> 00:43:39.340
Yeah.

00:43:39.579 --> 00:43:40.940
And that's what I was thinking.

00:43:41.099 --> 00:43:42.059
What you were mentioning.

00:43:42.219 --> 00:43:49.260
It's it's a familiar place to be, that betrayal place, neglected place.

00:43:49.420 --> 00:43:50.619
It's very familiar.

00:43:50.699 --> 00:43:54.619
And we go there and you sit there and it's awful.

00:43:54.780 --> 00:43:55.659
It's sad.

00:43:55.820 --> 00:43:57.500
It's you don't want to be there.

00:43:57.739 --> 00:44:05.179
But if I'm not in it, I'm not familiar with this place outside of the pits when this bad thing happens.

00:44:05.420 --> 00:44:07.019
So I totally get that.

00:44:07.260 --> 00:44:08.300
I totally get that.

00:44:08.460 --> 00:44:12.860
I haven't been in the pits in a long time, like a couple of years.

00:44:13.099 --> 00:44:13.340
Yeah.

00:44:13.579 --> 00:44:19.500
Which isn't a long time, but it's well, it it is if you were so familiar with it, like you know, regularly.

00:44:19.739 --> 00:44:21.420
Two years is a long time to live.

00:44:21.500 --> 00:44:23.099
I mean, and I totally get what you're saying.

00:44:23.739 --> 00:44:33.500
Because even just like I've talked about this way too much in the last week, but um I I was experiencing a few days of just kind of like melancholy.

00:44:33.579 --> 00:44:35.340
Like I was just like, what's going on?

00:44:35.500 --> 00:44:36.460
I feel kind of sad.

00:44:36.619 --> 00:44:42.940
But then I decided like I don't really care why, because nothing's happening to create it.

00:44:43.099 --> 00:44:47.340
So, you know, like sometimes you just gotta coexist with a feeling or an emotion or whatever.

00:44:47.420 --> 00:44:49.900
And like astrology's whack right now.

00:44:49.980 --> 00:44:55.500
So I was just like, okay, you know, I'm just gonna allow this to be and it is what it is, and whatever.

00:44:55.820 --> 00:45:01.179
But it did make me think like I used to feel like this times a hundred all the time.

00:45:01.420 --> 00:45:23.500
Like I just cycled through complete elation because I would get hyper-focused on something, you anything like a task or something in the future, you know, whatever, even if it was a goal, whatever it was, hyper focused, and then chemical depletion because all of those chemicals have now been released.

00:45:23.579 --> 00:45:32.860
You know, my dopamine's gone, chemical depletion, and then the narratives are when the chemical depletion it registered kind of as boredom or loneliness.

00:45:32.940 --> 00:45:38.780
And then the narrative there was like, well, yeah, because no one wants to be around you because you're like a horrible person, you know?

00:45:39.019 --> 00:45:40.460
So like it would just get lower.

00:45:40.539 --> 00:45:44.699
Then I would turn on the depressing music to help, you know, process.

00:45:44.780 --> 00:45:47.019
But like really, it was just like, let's just get it.

00:45:47.099 --> 00:45:54.860
Was the only way to like I knew how to experience feelings was through like listening to sad music, but it was just a perpetual cycle.

00:45:54.940 --> 00:46:01.659
And then, you know, I'd muster up the courage to try again, I'd get that hyper focus on something, and none of it was real.

00:46:01.739 --> 00:46:23.099
It was just like this ever never-ending loop of chemical highs and lows, which I mean is why I have such a hard time with like some diagnoses in in therapy, because I'm like, yes, and it can be just a natural process if you if you don't know how to manage those things.

00:46:23.260 --> 00:46:32.940
Because now, when I recognize I'm at a chemical low, like today, I'm doing about five hours of this between my show and like other people's.

00:46:33.260 --> 00:46:37.340
And I'm going to re- and then I also have two therapy clients this evening.

00:46:37.579 --> 00:46:44.300
I'm gonna be wiped from that by the time I go to sleep because when I do this, I get a lot of good stuff.

00:46:44.460 --> 00:46:48.460
Like a lot of dopamine, a lot of serotonin, all the good things happen.

00:46:48.619 --> 00:46:50.699
What comes up must come down.

00:46:50.860 --> 00:46:54.139
So I already know to prepare for a chemical low.

00:46:54.300 --> 00:46:57.659
I would have called that depression before, but it's just depletion.

00:46:57.820 --> 00:46:58.699
That's all it is.

00:46:58.860 --> 00:47:01.500
And I've learned now how to take care of myself through those.

00:47:01.659 --> 00:47:06.300
I know I I I usually have to be like, Will you come cuddle me for a minute?

00:47:06.380 --> 00:47:18.780
I know I need some physical comfort, I know I need comfort food like soups and a little sugar, and you know, but I also know that I have to have some fruits and vegetables because I got to get that strength back up for tomorrow.

00:47:18.940 --> 00:47:20.860
I know how to deal with those things now.

00:47:21.019 --> 00:47:28.380
Whereas before it was just this nonstop loop of like rinse repeat of really happy, really depressed.

00:47:29.659 --> 00:47:33.179
Yeah, I I am very familiar with that cycle myself.

00:47:33.260 --> 00:47:38.699
And it was like I would also listen to sad music as like, okay, there's the pit.

00:47:38.780 --> 00:47:40.300
I have to get myself down there.

00:47:40.539 --> 00:47:43.340
Yeah, you know, I gotta climb in deeper, baby.

00:47:43.500 --> 00:47:48.219
But yeah, let me get, let me get like I'm not gonna go anywhere for the next three days.

00:47:48.300 --> 00:47:54.380
I'm not gonna wash my hair, I'm not gonna take a shower, I'm just gonna sit here and mope.

00:47:54.780 --> 00:47:58.539
Maybe I'm gonna watch some some movies that make me cry.

00:47:58.780 --> 00:48:01.579
Yeah, movies that are just gonna make this way worse.

00:48:01.739 --> 00:48:02.059
Uh-huh.

00:48:02.300 --> 00:48:02.460
Yeah.

00:48:02.619 --> 00:48:07.019
Let me get as low as I possibly can go and just sit there.

00:48:07.260 --> 00:48:07.820
Yeah.

00:48:08.059 --> 00:48:09.099
And wallow.

00:48:09.820 --> 00:48:12.619
I think this is generational, don't you think?

00:48:13.099 --> 00:48:16.059
I think I think this is what we all did, truly.

00:48:16.300 --> 00:48:25.579
I mean, unless unless you were just the super, like I'm avoidant, you're avoidant, but the other people, they must be hyper avoidant if like they if they didn't do that.

00:48:25.659 --> 00:48:29.179
Like the people that you met there were just like seemed always happy, but you know they weren't.

00:48:29.340 --> 00:48:30.139
You know what I mean?

00:48:30.380 --> 00:48:37.500
But like this is kind of first of all, Nirvana gave us permission to sit around and listen to music and cry.

00:48:37.579 --> 00:48:37.820
Okay.

00:48:38.059 --> 00:48:38.460
That's right.

00:48:38.699 --> 00:48:46.380
So that's where our generation grunge music came in at the perfect time for us, where it said, Hey, let me help you experience your sadness.

00:48:46.619 --> 00:48:49.659
Okay, I'll give you something to be sad about, even.

00:48:50.139 --> 00:48:53.099
And so, like, really, I do think it's so generational.

00:48:53.179 --> 00:48:59.340
Because then also, if you think about all the movies that were popular at the time, too, like in the 90s and stuff.

00:48:59.659 --> 00:49:03.900
I mean, you've got male, sleepless in Seattle.

00:49:04.059 --> 00:49:07.260
Like, there's all of these things that you could watch and just get really sad.

00:49:07.340 --> 00:49:13.260
Even though the ending was like decent, it's still like, I feel kind of crappy after watching that, you know.

00:49:13.340 --> 00:49:17.099
But that that's why we went to those movies if we were in a sad mood.

00:49:17.500 --> 00:49:18.139
That's right.

00:49:18.380 --> 00:49:20.460
Steel Magnolias was my favorite.

00:49:20.619 --> 00:49:23.340
I mean, I would just Girl, no, yes.

00:49:24.219 --> 00:49:25.179
The trauma.

00:49:26.380 --> 00:49:27.179
I still won't watch.

00:49:27.420 --> 00:49:29.659
I have a friend who will watch it every single time it comes on.

00:49:29.820 --> 00:49:31.900
I can't, I cannot relive Shelby.

00:49:31.980 --> 00:49:32.539
I cannot.

00:49:32.619 --> 00:49:33.500
I cannot.

00:49:33.739 --> 00:49:35.659
I had a dog named Shelby.

00:49:35.820 --> 00:49:37.099
I bet you did.

00:49:37.579 --> 00:49:38.780
I bet you did.

00:49:39.179 --> 00:49:39.980
Yeah, yeah.

00:49:40.139 --> 00:49:41.900
I can't watch that anymore.

00:49:42.300 --> 00:49:43.340
Oh, it's awful.

00:49:43.420 --> 00:49:43.900
It's awful.

00:49:44.059 --> 00:49:44.860
It was awful.

00:49:44.940 --> 00:49:47.179
Like, I just remember being like, what?

00:49:48.860 --> 00:49:49.019
Oh.

00:49:49.420 --> 00:49:49.739
Yeah.

00:49:49.900 --> 00:49:50.219
Yeah.

00:49:50.380 --> 00:49:50.619
Yeah.

00:49:50.780 --> 00:49:52.300
And just sob every time.

00:49:52.539 --> 00:50:09.659
Um, so one thing you said like a long time ago, and it you didn't, I don't even know if you actually said these words, but you were talking about when you're growing up and in spite of your aunts and your grandmother, of like achieving, I think maybe in my head I put it, achieve equals love.

00:50:09.820 --> 00:50:18.699
And I think that maybe again another generational thing that we have put on ourselves of if I'm the best, I'll be loved.

00:50:18.780 --> 00:50:23.739
And that's gets that's where my pits of despair come back into play.

00:50:23.980 --> 00:50:32.300
Of yeah, if I don't do this good enough, if I'm in a relationship and he doesn't want to be with me anymore, then I'm not good enough.

00:50:32.460 --> 00:50:36.300
I have to be perfect, I have to do all of this so much better.

00:50:36.619 --> 00:50:37.820
Yeah, yeah.

00:50:37.980 --> 00:50:42.860
And you know, for me, unraveling all that perfectionism, oh, it took so long.

00:50:42.940 --> 00:50:48.380
I'm sure it's still showing up, just not as actively or presently as it used to.

00:50:48.619 --> 00:51:01.980
But yeah, I had to really like investigate because, like, you know, the good thing about having a podcast and having experts come on is like I'll just get free advice from them all the time, right?

00:51:02.539 --> 00:51:05.980
So I had a relationship girl on one time and she was really fun.

00:51:06.139 --> 00:51:09.260
So I was like, hey, actually, I'm in a fight with my husband right now.

00:51:09.340 --> 00:51:11.579
So um let me let me talk to you about that.

00:51:11.739 --> 00:51:13.659
And so, so I did.

00:51:14.699 --> 00:51:20.300
And by the end of the conversation, what I recognized was that I wasn't even still upset about the fight.

00:51:20.380 --> 00:51:24.059
I was upset that I wasn't perfect, that I let it get a little messy.

00:51:24.219 --> 00:51:25.019
You know what I mean?

00:51:25.179 --> 00:51:31.019
Like, I think we all reach this phase in our healing where we're like, I know better, I do better, right?

00:51:31.500 --> 00:51:33.500
And in some ways that's gonna be true.

00:51:33.659 --> 00:51:38.940
Like, so there, yeah, I'm not a raging psycho anymore, but I'm still bitchy.

00:51:39.099 --> 00:51:40.860
And that didn't go away magically.

00:51:41.019 --> 00:51:44.460
And I thought it would, you know, but like we kind of start to judge our healing.

00:51:44.539 --> 00:51:56.940
I've seen that with clients too, where like about six weeks in, because they've really expanded some consciousness, you know, like they're doing pretty well, and then they're like, I made a mistake, and I just feel like I should be further along.

00:51:57.019 --> 00:52:05.420
And I'm like, oh my gosh, it's so fun to get to see this in other people because then I can see how this also shows up in my life, and I don't even realize it, you know.

00:52:05.659 --> 00:52:19.659
But yeah, I mean, I don't even know if it's as much generational as it is family systems, you know, like there's always gonna be a golden child who thinks that that's their role.

00:52:19.820 --> 00:52:29.739
They learn very early on through comparison with siblings or other family members that like, oh, you do not receive love when you do that.

00:52:29.900 --> 00:52:30.860
I'm gonna do this.

00:52:31.019 --> 00:52:35.099
I mean, or the opposite, even like, oh, you get that, I'm gonna do it better.

00:52:35.260 --> 00:52:41.260
But in our family system, my older brother was the scapegoat, and so he couldn't do anything right.

00:52:41.579 --> 00:52:45.980
And I was like, oh, let me not do anything like that.

00:52:46.139 --> 00:52:48.139
And I I just learned really young.

00:52:48.300 --> 00:52:53.980
And also it was weird because like my mom, I was the only one she was physically abusive with.

00:52:54.539 --> 00:52:57.739
And I don't, I it's interesting.

00:52:57.900 --> 00:53:04.380
I don't know if it's the dynamic between moms and boys that you know, because boys are kind of sweeter when they're younger.

00:53:04.699 --> 00:53:05.579
I was sweet.

00:53:05.659 --> 00:53:06.139
I don't know.

00:53:06.300 --> 00:53:09.019
I don't know what the deal was, but she she'd beat the hell out of me.

00:53:09.179 --> 00:53:10.219
But she didn't do that to them.

00:53:10.300 --> 00:53:16.219
She would cuss at them, she'd you know, be in their face or whatever, but she did that with me too, but she also would beat me.

00:53:16.460 --> 00:53:41.019
But like I I think that like the contrast between like my grandma tried to nurture my strength too, and tried to comfort me and tried in the in her best ability, but the baby, whoo, I mean, he was he was he was he was the comedian of the family, and he was, you know, uh the the tension breaker and whatever.

00:53:41.179 --> 00:53:43.659
Truly, I was the golden child, but he was the favorite.

00:53:43.820 --> 00:53:49.980
Like he was he he could not do a damn thing wrong to her, you know, like it was like whatever.

00:53:50.139 --> 00:53:56.219
And then it was kind of like that, like with my mom too, but I just was completely insignificant.

00:53:56.300 --> 00:54:00.940
And I think that some of it was some jealousy over the relationship between my grandma and me.

00:54:01.099 --> 00:54:04.139
But she had been a caregiver off and on for me since I was two months old.

00:54:04.219 --> 00:54:13.579
So, like, you know, I didn't have that attachment to my mom the way I did my grandma in terms of like uh authority.

00:54:14.460 --> 00:54:16.219
Um it was weird.

00:54:16.300 --> 00:54:16.699
I don't know.

00:54:16.780 --> 00:54:21.659
Like, you're my mom and I love you, but like I know that I can't rely on you for anything.

00:54:21.820 --> 00:54:25.340
So I'm this is who I go to for comfort and whatever.

00:54:25.579 --> 00:54:32.139
I longed and craved for that type of thing with my mom, but I knew like this is where I get that, you don't give me that.

00:54:32.300 --> 00:54:46.940
But I think, yeah, every family system has these different dynamics, and girls especially tend to learn very young that if I achieve, I get praise, and praise feels good, and this is kind of the only thing I can do right.

00:54:47.099 --> 00:54:50.940
And then there are those girls who are high achieving who can't do anything right, you know?

00:54:51.260 --> 00:54:53.500
Which honestly was kind of the case for me.

00:54:53.659 --> 00:55:01.820
If it made her look good, it was cool that I was doing something, but like I could not do anything right in my grandma's eyes.

00:55:01.900 --> 00:55:09.260
I mean, truly, like I am sure that when I was younger, she praised me and whatever, but any of my success threatened her.

00:55:09.500 --> 00:55:18.860
So she she just felt, you know, gross at any of my achievements and then lashed out at me.

00:55:18.940 --> 00:55:21.099
You know, my degrees were just a piece of paper.

00:55:21.260 --> 00:55:25.019
So I was like, piece of paper, you don't have grandma, but whatever.

00:55:26.539 --> 00:55:31.980
So, okay, so you've written a couple books, but one of them does talk about good is not or good is enough.

00:55:32.139 --> 00:55:33.900
I was just about to say good is not enough.

00:55:34.219 --> 00:55:35.099
Good is not enough.

00:55:35.179 --> 00:55:36.219
Uh yeah, good is enough.

00:55:36.300 --> 00:55:42.940
Yeah, so I've been creating these little instant download workbooks for about five months now, five or six.

00:55:43.179 --> 00:55:52.539
Um every month I put out a new workbook, and it's it's they're like super cheap, they're easy to access, and it's you know, each one has a different theme.

00:55:52.699 --> 00:55:58.539
Good is enough is to work on perfectionism, and it's got like daily practices.

00:55:58.699 --> 00:56:10.619
Um, I really like to talk about the difference between like an affirmation and like an invocation or a decree, because you know, affirmations are beautiful and they can rewire your brain, but if you don't believe them, you're just affirming a lie.

00:56:10.860 --> 00:56:19.500
So, like I really like you to step in to like invoke or decree, decide for yourself right here, right now, this is going to be.

00:56:19.659 --> 00:56:22.860
And then you just make a bunch of daily decisions to confirm that.

00:56:23.099 --> 00:56:26.780
Then you can affirm because you start to believe it deeply.

00:56:26.940 --> 00:56:31.420
Um, but yeah, so each of my little workbooks, they have a different theme and different practices.

00:56:31.500 --> 00:56:39.900
I do a lot of like somatic practices to get you back into your body because the number one thing that trauma does is to separate you from your body.

00:56:40.139 --> 00:56:53.820
And I like to say, like, we're like little floating balloons attached to our bodies with a string because we just learn how to jump up into our head and try to escape, try to numb, try to intellectualize, try to rationalize, try to analyze.

00:56:53.980 --> 00:56:57.179
We don't know how to feel and be one with ourselves.

00:56:57.420 --> 00:57:03.099
And so each of my workbooks has a small somatic component, shadow work, all kinds of stuff.

00:57:03.179 --> 00:57:04.860
But yeah, I'm having fun putting those out.

00:57:05.179 --> 00:57:07.179
How do people get them if they want?

00:57:07.820 --> 00:57:09.260
Um, let's see.

00:57:09.420 --> 00:57:16.699
On on Instagram, I'm really active, and my link tree is there, and all of them are linked there.

00:57:17.420 --> 00:57:28.780
I was trying to think, I was linking each of them individually on my website as well, but it just got a little overwhelming, so I took most of them down from there.

00:57:28.940 --> 00:57:36.380
Um, also I have a Patreon for the show, and I actually have two shows, but the other one I have with a co-host.

00:57:36.539 --> 00:57:53.179
Um, but on Emotionally Unavailable, the Patreon, there's a$10 tier, and so you in that tier you get ad-free episodes, but you also get my monthly workbook included, and that's$5 cheaper than because I sell them for$14.44.

00:57:53.659 --> 00:57:59.500
So you save a little bit by just subscribing, and then it's an automatic, you just go and download whenever it comes out.

00:57:59.659 --> 00:58:05.099
Um, it comes out, you know, the like the end of the third week of every month, usually.

00:58:05.340 --> 00:58:13.900
And they're and then it like if you subscribe to the Patreon, you get whatever that month is, and the back ones that I've uploaded there.

00:58:13.980 --> 00:58:19.420
I only just started uploading uh to Patreon probably like three three months ago, if that.

00:58:19.500 --> 00:58:26.619
So there's I've included a couple of the back ones so that you can get some stuff for free if you subscribe, but that's a benefit of that.

00:58:26.699 --> 00:58:27.900
But they are easy to find.

00:58:28.059 --> 00:58:32.219
I'm at Melissa.hepner on Instagram, that's the social I'm the most active on.

00:58:32.380 --> 00:58:38.860
I post stuff on Facebook, but I hate Facebook so much because that's where I know people in real life and they drive me absolutely insane.

00:58:39.099 --> 00:58:50.059
And so, you know, um, I try to stay off of there, but uh Instagram I'm pretty active on, and uh my link tree is there and it it can get you to anything you want with me.

00:58:50.539 --> 00:58:53.019
Okay, and then when are what's your podcast again?

00:58:53.179 --> 00:58:53.900
You said you have two.

00:58:54.300 --> 00:58:58.219
Emotionally unavailable is is the podcast I do by myself.

00:58:58.380 --> 00:59:04.860
Um, and it really is just kind of my journey to growth and evolution.

00:59:05.019 --> 00:59:15.420
I mean, it started out as a way to discuss trying to become more vulnerable, uh, because that was the only thing I was aware of at the time, is that I had a tough time being vulnerable.

00:59:15.739 --> 00:59:17.820
Um, and then it's transformed.

00:59:17.900 --> 00:59:30.860
I have a lot of different types of people on, and but they're really like organic conversations like this, and just kind of, you know, connecting on uh in a very authentic manner.

00:59:31.179 --> 00:59:34.219
And um yeah, I think I think they're beautiful.

00:59:34.300 --> 00:59:35.579
I think it's a great show.

00:59:35.739 --> 00:59:39.099
And then I have Unquiet Soul with my co-host Angie Hawkins.

00:59:39.179 --> 00:59:40.699
I met her on my show too.

00:59:40.860 --> 00:59:45.019
Um, she's super fun and it's more lighthearted, I feel like.

00:59:45.099 --> 00:59:48.380
Like because you know, we can go real deep on emotionally unavailable.

00:59:48.619 --> 00:59:53.579
And so Unquiet Soul, I talk about like some astrology stuff.

00:59:53.739 --> 00:59:59.420
We talk about whatever's going on in our lives that week, like what lessons we've learned that week, things like that.

00:59:59.500 --> 01:00:01.179
And it's fun, it's a fun show.

01:00:01.500 --> 01:00:02.699
Okay, that sounds very fun.

01:00:02.860 --> 01:00:06.780
All right, so Instagram is the probably the best place to go.

01:00:07.019 --> 01:00:11.179
Probably, yeah, because it's got my link tree there for every single link you at my website.

01:00:11.340 --> 01:00:15.420
The show uh it's got Apple link, Spotify link, YouTube link.

01:00:15.739 --> 01:00:19.980
Um I have a little shop online, it's got links to that.

01:00:20.139 --> 01:00:23.179
Like anything you could possibly want to do with me would be there.

01:00:23.340 --> 01:00:24.780
Okay, I have loved this conversation.

01:00:24.860 --> 01:00:29.420
This has been fun, but I know if I don't say we need to wrap up, then we'll never wrap up.

01:00:29.500 --> 01:00:30.940
So we will not, yeah.

01:00:31.260 --> 01:00:40.300
Wrapping up, is there any specific words of encouragement or wisdom or just lasting thoughts that you would like to leave with listeners today?

01:00:41.099 --> 01:00:50.139
Yeah, and listen, if you see clips of me talking, I say this a lot, but please know that every time I say it, I mean it just as genuinely as the first time it came out of my mouth.

01:00:50.460 --> 01:00:57.500
You are great exactly how you are, right here, right now.

01:00:57.900 --> 01:01:04.940
You don't have to change every last thing about yourself to find peace or healing or to be healed.

01:01:05.260 --> 01:01:08.219
We don't heal because that's the point.

01:01:08.380 --> 01:01:13.579
We heal so that we can get the most joy, love, and abundance out of this life.

01:01:13.659 --> 01:01:15.500
And you deserve that, you're worthy of that.

01:01:15.659 --> 01:01:26.139
You were born with every ounce of worth that you're ever gonna have, which is a lot, and nothing external of you changes your worth or value as a human.

01:01:26.380 --> 01:01:38.300
So, yes, you probably do need to unbecome a lot of the things the world told you to be, probably, so that you can become who you actually came here to be.

01:01:38.619 --> 01:01:42.139
Be you, you're exactly who you need to be.

01:01:42.300 --> 01:01:47.179
All those things that we look at, like flaws or failures, they're part of your magic.

01:01:47.340 --> 01:01:52.539
And it's kind of like the butterfly effect where you see the point of it later.

01:01:52.780 --> 01:02:00.699
So maybe you're on the spectrum, maybe you've been in a bunch of crap relationships, uh, maybe you feel like the worst mom ever.

01:02:01.099 --> 01:02:03.820
Maybe you don't know how to deal with a crisis by yourself.

01:02:04.059 --> 01:02:15.900
Every single thing that you have just criticized yourself to death for, I promise you, you will find a positive in it when you work through your trauma and find peace for yourself.

01:02:16.059 --> 01:02:24.539
You will see the point later because those are your gifts and you can use them freely as the minute you start to embrace them.

01:02:24.699 --> 01:02:27.820
And life really is for love.

01:02:28.380 --> 01:02:45.019
Learn to love yourself unconditionally and find that unconditional positive regard because everything changes then, and you become an unshakable, unmovable force in this universe when you do that.

01:02:45.900 --> 01:02:46.699
Thank you so much.

01:02:46.860 --> 01:02:49.980
I think that is something that a lot of us needed to hear.

01:02:50.219 --> 01:02:51.980
So um, thank you for those words.

01:02:52.139 --> 01:02:53.739
Thank you for joining me today, Melissa.

01:02:54.300 --> 01:02:54.699
Thank you.

01:02:54.860 --> 01:02:55.659
I had so much fun.

01:02:55.820 --> 01:02:56.380
I did too.

01:02:56.460 --> 01:02:57.579
We'll have to do this again.

01:02:58.139 --> 01:02:58.780
Yes.

01:03:01.099 --> 01:03:05.980
Thank you again, Melissa, for joining me today, and thank you, Warriors, for listening.

01:03:06.219 --> 01:03:12.300
I've included all of the links Melissa was referring to, as well as her one in three profile, in the show notes.

01:03:12.460 --> 01:03:15.579
I will be back next week with another episode for you.

01:03:15.820 --> 01:03:17.900
Until then, stay strong.

01:03:18.059 --> 01:03:23.739
And wherever you are in your journey, always remember you are not alone.

01:03:27.179 --> 01:03:33.980
Find more information, register as a guest, or leave a review by going to the website onein3podcast.com.

01:03:34.219 --> 01:03:38.460
That's the number one, IN the number three podcast.com.

01:03:38.780 --> 01:03:43.500
Follow one in three on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at one and three podcast.

01:03:43.820 --> 01:03:47.820
To help me out, please remember to rate review and subscribe.

01:03:48.059 --> 01:03:50.940
One and three is a point five Panoy production.

01:03:51.099 --> 01:03:53.900
Music written and performed by Tim Crow.
Malisa Hepner Profile Photo
Malisa Hepner

Therapist, Podcast Host, Author, Speaker

Today’s guest is Malisa Hepner, a therapist, podcast host, and public speaker who helps people quiet the noise of trauma, reconnect with themselves, and embody the light. She’s the host of Emotionally Unavailable and one of the hosts of Unquiet Soul, two shows that open space for deep, real, and transformative conversations. Malisa is also the creator of healing workbooks like Safe to Be Seen and The Beauty of Imperfection: Good Is Enough. Drawing on both her professional expertise and her lived experience as a survivor of complex PTSD, she’s passionate about helping people move beyond overthinking, perfectionism, and fear of visibility to live more grounded, authentic, and joyful lives.