WEBVTT
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Hi, Marisol, Welcome back.
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Thank you again for joining me.
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Thank you for having me.
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So last episode we talked about co-parenting and what the definitions are and the impact it has on you as the other parent and on the children.
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So today let's talk about how do you get through it, how do you survive high-conflict co-parenting.
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So the best way that I there's three different steps that I actually ended up, or more like tips that I ended up creating through an e-book that I created last year.
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And, honestly, the step the e-book that I created is called um, something I think I forgot what the title I that I made for it, but it's I had to do with, like the mistake at its core.
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It's the mistakes that I made that I feel I had to later on fix because I was.
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You know, when you're quote high conflict co-parenting, there's a lot of things that you don't know how to handle when you're in it, and then you're always wondering, well, did I do this right?
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Did I do this wrong?
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How is it affecting my child?
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How is it affecting me?
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How long is it going to last?
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So you have all of these questions and then you're looking at it and you're like, oh, my goodness, how is this going to work?
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So I ended up coming down with three things that I feel help a lot in high conflict co-parenting, and I don't know if you want me to just go one by one, or how would you like to do that?
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I think that, yeah, let's do it that way.
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The first one was when, depending on the time that they get the other parent, I would highly suggest not to control their time.
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Don't control their time, you know.
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Whatever it is that they want to do with the child when they're on their time, let that be, even even if you don't agree with it, even if you're listening to it and you're like, what are they doing?
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You know, because they're going to do things that are going to just leave you perplexed and some of those things might actually be sometimes, you know, questionable towards the kids.
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You know some of them may merit, you know, a court hearing.
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You don't, you won't know until you move forward with it, you know, but one of the things I had to learn was to let the time that they have with the child, with their child, let that be it.
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You know what I mean.
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Let it, let it just roll, you know, but it was really hard be it.
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You know what I mean.
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Let it, let it just roll, you know, but it was really hard.
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It was really hard to actually be able to do that, and in my ebook I actually have like a journal section of you know where you can work through and process, um, how to let that go, because, as moms, honestly, it was very strange for me, um, once my daughter's father got 50, 50 to not have an involvement in my daughter's life.
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My daughter literally had a whole separate life that I had no clue about.
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She had her own friends on that side.
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They did activities that I was not being part of.
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They had birthdays I was never privy to.
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She had a whole different life that I never really knew about.
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And, as a mom, not only did we not sign up for that, but it's a little bit heartbreaking because we're mom and you're like how do I not, how am I not involved in that?
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Right?
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So there has to be like a certain level of like um boundary.
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You know, not only the boundary for your child to develop a relationship with their father you know, um, as you know, as they get older but then a boundary for yourself because at the same time, you can't really be trying to trying to control what they're doing on their time.
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You know.
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So it's a really hard take to do, but it helped me get more of like, percept, like be a perspective of what wasn't mine anymore, but it took me a while to actually let it go.
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The second one is I know it's going to sound harsh, but, like we, as single moms, we put so much of our identity into being a single mom, so I have concluded recently that we need to get a life outside of our kids.
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What are you?
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telling me here.
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I need to leave the house.
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I am doing the same thing even now, and my kids are already older.
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You know what I mean.
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Like I'm looking at my life and I'm like, okay, so who am I beyond being a single mom?
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You know we do so much surrounding that role.
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We pick careers based on our kids' school schedules.
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We, you know, pick schools based on scheduling.
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That you know what I mean.
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We do so many logistics to revolve around that role.
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So when your kids are not with you, you got to find out what else did you love doing before you even had kids and bring it back in.
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Did you like dancing?
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Did you like singing?
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I love to do both.
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Did you love to write?
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Did you love?
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Like yourself, you're doing the podcast.
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That's a great way to have an outlet that's just yours, because so many of us, our identity, is so centered on being a single mom and at some point, even though you're in the thick of it, it's going to change and it's going to morph into your kids at some point, moving out and they're going to.
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And that's like I said, it's going to change and it's going to morph into your kids at some point, moving out and they're going to, and that's like I said, it's a natural way of things, but it doesn't hurt any less.
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So, even though you're going towards, you know your kids are eventually leaving, because I don't know if you guys know, but they're going to leave Is the mother.
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The parent role actually is one of the hardest things that I have ever encountered, because you're essentially preparing these human beings to leave you.
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Like you know what I mean, like you're trying to work through things, trying to, you know, build communication, build the bond, but at some point they're going to leave, you know.
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So I really recommend finding other things that you can do that that keep you intact, and actually those things will help too.
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Whenever you're going to the high conflict co-parenting thing and you're hearing all of this garbage about yourself, right, you know, cause they're calling you names, they're doing this shady thing this other day that you're like, how do you have time for that?
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You know, cause my, my daughter's dad, had a lot of time for a lot of shady stuff.
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So, um, you're doing all these things and um, so you got to figure out how to still have a somewhat of an interest, um, in doing things that you love, you know, and, and it's okay to do things that you love, even if it's, like you know, free at no charge, or, you know, sometimes communities have things like that.
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The last one that I made a huge mistake on it was not using your kids as emotional support.
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That one's hard.
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That one's hard because I think when you're a single mom sometimes especially like for myself right now I don't have a partner, so you rely on a lot on your kids.
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You know through talking, through talking about your day, through you know like and if you're really do get along with your kids because of this bond that you're building, especially if now they know what their dad is, there's a certain dynamic that now stems.
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That now is more highlighted because now they know and you kind of sort of bond over it, but at the same time it's like they're still too young to be your friend.
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Right and there's that appropriate level of like how much emotional dumping.
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Can I do how?
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much?
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Do you tell them?
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How much emotional dumping can I?
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do so.
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Get a therapist, ladies.
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The kids are not our therapist.
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I love my son because he's like my biggest cheerleader, but at the same time I need to make some friends that can cheerlead me too.
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I need woman friends.
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So there has to be a boundary set with how much we should share with our kids, even if they are emotionally intelligent, and how much.
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How much of that you should be processing in therapy and then how much of you know just basically how to create a boundary, that way they're not feeling like they're carrying the weight of like being your emotional support.
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It's too much on a kid.
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They're too young, right, and you don't want them to end up going to therapy because of all the emotional trauma.
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Their mom put them through Right Exactly and, like I said, these tips I literally created them because they're mistakes that I have made that I'm still sorting through.
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Parenting in general.
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Again, when you're in a traditional relationship, you're constantly reeval relationship.
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You're constantly reevaluating what you're doing and trying to be a better parent.
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So naturally, when you're now separate and in a high conflicts co-parenting relationship, there's a lot that you're going to look back on and say, oh, maybe I shouldn't have done that.
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Yeah, and it takes a special level of like humbleness too, to be able to recognize that, because I don't think we as parents sometimes want to hear how we messed up.
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Right, it's very uncomfortable to hear, you know, and my kids got older and they're pretty vocal when I have messed up and it makes me really uncomfortable.
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But it's also an opportunity to really reframe or stop doing certain behaviors or stop talking a certain way or what.
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You know what I mean.
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Like it's a, it's a way to still help your child be seen, even if it's uncomfortable.
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That's literally how relationships grow.
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Right, yeah, absolutely so.
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What happens when you have to communicate with the other parents, and how do you do that without getting yourself triggered to become an emotional wreck or Right or send the landmines they send or send the landmines they send Right, right.
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How do you not respond?
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Because you know sometimes they're doing it, because they are baiting you.
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They know how to get under your skin.
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So how do you effectively?
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communicate the needs of your child without getting sucked in to their bait.
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So I think it just depends on the context of the email, if they're sending it or if you're sending it.
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I highly recommend that.
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If you are in a high conflict situation, the dynamic that whenever I listen to women who are in high conflict dynamics and they're still texting and calling and emailing directly, I cringe, or like I just it makes me nervous because you're opening yourself up to so much harassment.
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That's essentially what it is.
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Some of these people will harass you, you know, and they'll harass you for stupid things too.
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So, in terms of the communication, if you're sending it out, it's just better to just stay matter of fact and not include anything that would you know, nothing inflammatory, like you know, for example.
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Well, you know, do you remember when you did this in 2000,?
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Like you know 20 and well, let's not do that again and we're going to do this instead.
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Like you have to kind of like reward it so that it's not so accusatory.
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Especially if you're dealing with a high conflict person, they tend to be pretty defensive.
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So you want to, you want to sound flat and unemotional If you are on the receiving end of a email that you, that it's, they're typically very long.
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From my understanding and from my own personal experience, if you are receiving an email where, um, they're just having at it and just bashing you to, you know, to another degree that is also triggering for you.
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You know cause it can be very triggering If you're just being bashed and you're looking at it and you extract to see, um, if the email needs to be responded to, if there's anything on there that pertains to your child that maybe you need to address, if he's just rehashing stuff from whatever he thinks of you that you did while you were together, that does not require a response.
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If, basically, you got to analyze the, you have to be in the mental space to try to be in a mental space to respond to it.
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And if it doesn't meet like the criteria of it being responded to, I would not respond at all, or you can just write the words duly noted.
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That's what I've heard friends have used.
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I used to do that a lot.
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And eventually my daughter's dad ended up really hating it, to the point that he actually would tell our daughter how much he hated it, that he was sending these lengthy emails of what a horrible mom I am or what he thought, or whatever I did back in 2004 that now he's like somehow tying to current stuff.
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It was really annoying and draining.
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So there's a lot of circular thinking happening.
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So whenever I would get the emails, I started dissecting them to see if I really needed to respond to something that was court-related that my daughter needed or yeah, that's pretty much it.
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Anything else that revolved around bashing me, it usually got a duly noted or a noted.
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Okay, yeah, and that makes sense, because you're shutting it down.
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How does somebody else respond to that?
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Right.
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And then the reason that I ended up starting to even do that.
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I forgot how I got that idea from.
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I ended up having to look more into how he was talking to me because, number one, the courts weren't helping, even though we were on our family wizard.
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Family wizard was ordered for us because of the high conflict scenario, but it became another means for him to continue to verbally abuse me.
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I would submit those to the courts and the courts didn't really view it as a concern, even though it was, you know, slowly, incrementally becoming more like, you know, really unnecessary, you know.
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So I started looking into these emails and I remember one time he emailed me and he was like on Family Wizard and he flat out told me I don't care what kind of conversation we're having, communication we're having, I just want to make sure that we're still communicating.
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And when he said that I was like ew, like this is so toxic and you still want to keep conversing, like this has like no value at all.
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And that's when I went looking for other methods of not engaging and I went looking for gray rock.
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You know, um, have you heard of gray rock?
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before I have.
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But do you mind just explaining that, because that's not.
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It's a term that's familiar to some, but not everyone.
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So my understanding, um, and I haven't used gray rock in a hot minute now, but do you mind?
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just explaining that Because it's a term that's familiar to some but not everyone.
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So my understanding and I haven't used Grey Rock in a hot minute now, but my understanding is that Grey Rock is when you're in a difficult situation with someone who is toxic or difficult because there's different levels of toxicity you basically don't sound as exciting as having to engage in the conflict.
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If they're inviting you to the conflict don't sound as exciting as like having to engage in the conflict.
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Like if they're inviting you to the conflict, don't engage.
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You know, or you're very short, you're very flat with your answers.
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You know, and that's kind of how I understood it when I was using it and eventually the emails did become less frequent, you know, in terms of him engaging with me, but it wasn't just the emails, it was, you know, we, I didn't just do that, I did other things to basically I wouldn't say get rid of them, but just to stop that type of behavior coming my way.
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You know, um, but it helped.
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It helped to constantly write, duly noted, and I and to my knowledge they did not like that.
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Which is kind of a win in itself.
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Well, I kind of just became very.
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Apparently they don't like boring people.
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You know they don't like it when you don't engage, so I stopped engaging.
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I always wanted to like defend myself and go tell them my truth and go you and go counter whatever he's saying about me.
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I stopped caring.
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I stopped caring about him thinking I'm a terrible mom.
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I stopped caring about him trying to send me an email.
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Oh, if you don't do this, I'm taking you to court.
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Okay, Right, and that's brilliant advice, because these are individuals that you can't argue with, you can't rationalize anything, you can't win.
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You're just going to keep going in a circle where they will continue to verbally abuse you or insult you or whatever, and you're going to constantly be left in this loop of trying to feel that you need to defend yourself.
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But yeah, if you just gray rock them and not engage, I think that's the best thing you can do, because you're not going to change their mind or change their opinion about you?
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Yeah, you're not.
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And the thing with two is that when you're in it and you start learning these things that we're talking about, don't think that number one that the things are going to change immediately, because you've probably been at this for a while.
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Number two don't be surprised if you actually do take the bait one day and you're like, oh shoot, I'm back in it.
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It's more like a habit that you have to develop with time.
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You know what I mean.
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Like these strategies of you know how not to engage.
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They're developed with time.
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You know what I mean.
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Like these strategies of you know how not to engage there.
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They're developed with time.
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You know, usually with high conflict, the conflict has been going on for such a long period of time that at some point, it's you who has to change your behavior and how you engage in the conflict in order for there to be a change.
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You know so.
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And there was times where I did get baited, even after I knew about gray rock and was in therapy and, you know, did all the anger management, I still was baited, you know, and I still fell for it.
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And I was like and I would have to reframe and check myself and I'm like oh shoot, I'm back in there with you again you know, well, and it's yeah, and it's frustrating because you get out of these relationships and you think, okay, I'm out, I'm good, we'll co parent.
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I know how I'm supposed to co-parent, they should do the same.
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And then you have this experience and it's frustrating because you have to change your reaction.
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So it's almost like why do I always have to be the person who makes the changes?
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Well, the most simplified answer for that is that when you do change that, it actually helps you with your kids, because once you start not putting so much focus and energy on the conflict with the father or we'll just say father you will then be able to kind of train yourself to be okay, to listen to things about him.
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I know that with my daughter I, my mentality and how I view I eventually would end up not, you know, not having that much of a reaction over the emails.
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Um, I focused more on developing a relationship with her and then, through my anger management classes that were free, through the community that I lived in, I created a space for my daughter where she could talk about whatever she saw fit that I should know about or whatever she felt comfortable sharing with me, whether it be even something nice about dad you know.
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Like like you know he loves cooking.
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You know what I mean.
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Like that way I didn't feel this level of like internal hate.
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So my daughter got really comfortable just sharing little minuscule you know details about them, without me feeling so upset by hearing even the mention of their name, you know.
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So it in essence just helped me develop better, not just coping skills with those emails.
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But it also helped me have a different relationship with my kid, because now, I mean, whenever they're mentioned, I can definitely, just, you know, listen to my kid's experience because they have an experience with their dad, right.
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So listen to my kids' experience because they're, they have an experience with their dad, right?
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So you know, and and the truth of the matter is, is that our kids are going to have characteristics of their other parent, you know, so they're, they're the other parent you know.
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So, knowing that, you know, as a it's like it kind of went in a different direction because we're talking about emails, but it's all connected.
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It's all connected because, essentially, it helped me develop a better relationship with my kid.
00:20:24.477 --> 00:20:29.510
Well, and I think being able to emotionally step back from a response, it helps you.
00:20:29.510 --> 00:20:43.596
Also when your kid comes home and says mom or dad said this about you and instead of getting like flipping out in front of your kid, that was me actually, I actually hated Wednesdays because that's a day that we would switch over custody.
00:20:44.246 --> 00:20:53.597
I never knew what she was going to bring over and I used to hate them because I didn't know what thing they were going to be.
00:20:53.597 --> 00:20:58.916
You know that had been discussed about me, how I was being bashed or what negative light I was being portrayed on, you know.
00:20:58.916 --> 00:21:04.957
So I didn't like Wednesdays for a long time, you know, but eventually it ended up changing.
00:21:04.957 --> 00:21:13.990
It changed and a lot of it came from me looking up for resources and also, um, me going to therapy, you know, and and then implementing it.
00:21:13.990 --> 00:21:19.089
And a lot of it was actually, um, trial and error, like I was hoping this would work.
00:21:19.089 --> 00:21:24.233
Maybe it did, and I was constantly adjusting, you know, like to see if things would improve.
00:21:24.233 --> 00:21:28.989
And a lot of the improve I didn't even really look at his.
00:21:28.989 --> 00:21:31.855
I didn't even look at it to see if he was improving.
00:21:31.855 --> 00:21:33.357
I, that's not really my concern.
00:21:33.357 --> 00:21:36.271
I was trying to see how I can improve with my kid.
00:21:36.271 --> 00:21:37.836
That's what I was concerned with.
00:21:39.425 --> 00:21:46.094
Because ultimately, that's the important thing is how your children what's the word?
00:21:46.094 --> 00:21:48.878
Evolve, I guess, through the relationship.
00:21:48.878 --> 00:21:57.199
So you have taken your experience and your background and you now offer coaching services.
00:21:57.946 --> 00:22:04.292
for this right, yes, I am now a high conflict co-parenting coach and a lot of it stems from having two kids with two different dads.
00:22:04.292 --> 00:22:11.596
I managed at some point two child custody cases, two child support and my longest custody battle was for my daughter.
00:22:11.596 --> 00:22:13.027
It stemmed for almost a decade.
00:22:14.108 --> 00:22:19.479
So I know we're going to talk about some other legal options and things.
00:22:19.479 --> 00:22:22.489
We're going to talk about some other like legal options and things.
00:22:22.489 --> 00:22:28.306
But since we're on that coaching topic, how, if somebody wanted to get to you and ask you for some coaching services, how do they do that?
00:22:28.306 --> 00:22:28.386
You?
00:22:28.406 --> 00:22:33.730
could just find me at Marisol Vasquez official and then I have a link tree on there and they can do.
00:22:33.730 --> 00:22:35.257
I have a coaching.
00:22:35.257 --> 00:22:37.766
The coaching session sessions can be booked through there.
00:22:37.766 --> 00:22:40.675
But then I also have some free services.
00:22:40.675 --> 00:22:52.112
I do have an online support group called Empowered Mom Circle and it's just focused on high conflict, co-parenting and just supporting moms through it, just basically getting through it.
00:22:52.204 --> 00:22:58.576
It's not going to necessarily solve all the problems, but I developed it because I remember when I was in it I felt so alone.
00:22:58.576 --> 00:23:01.172
I literally felt like I was the only one going through it.
00:23:01.172 --> 00:23:04.580
So that's how my, my, um, my support group started.
00:23:04.580 --> 00:23:13.352
And then the second portion is that my ebook is on there too and it does help with um co-parenting strategies in terms of helping um, the tips that I mentioned earlier.
00:23:13.352 --> 00:23:14.715
They're actually in the book.
00:23:14.715 --> 00:23:20.534
And then um, along with some journaling, just so that you can kind of start turning things in a different direction.
00:23:20.534 --> 00:23:22.056
That might that might not.
00:23:22.056 --> 00:23:24.119
That's not going to change your ex Let me just be upfront.
00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:27.151
It's not about him or her, you know.
00:23:27.151 --> 00:23:33.798
It's more about how do you gain some peace through this chaos that can also safeguard your relationship with your kids.
00:23:35.924 --> 00:23:39.228
And that's so important, and I'll include those links in the show notes.
00:23:39.228 --> 00:23:45.051
So, speaking of support, so what kind of support is there out there for?
00:23:45.051 --> 00:23:48.753
Are developing either podcasts or even Instagram?
00:23:48.795 --> 00:24:02.993
accounts, just talking about their experiences.
00:24:02.993 --> 00:24:14.498
So a lot of us are on there, you know, talking about how real this is, because I think I don't think it gets enough publicity.
00:24:14.498 --> 00:24:16.184
I would say, you know, you know what I mean.
00:24:16.184 --> 00:24:28.731
Like these are children that are being affected by an abuser, and then not only that, when we go to court it doesn't really solve anything, it usually will make it worse.
00:24:28.731 --> 00:24:34.336
So that's when post-separation abuse comes in, you know.
