35-Domestic Violence SURVIVOR: Danielle Patrice Part 1

Speaker 1:
0:24

Hi, danielle, thank you for coming on and welcome.

Speaker 2:
0:28

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so glad to be here. I could not wait for this particular podcast interview. So thank you for having me.

Speaker 1:
0:35

I'm very excited to have you. Again, thank you for coming on. So we have a couple of things that we're going to talk about. You have your own personal domestic violence story that you can share a little bit about, but then you also wrote a book. Because of all this so there's so much information to get through I'm going to mute myself and just let you take it away.

Speaker 2:
0:58

Alright. So, yes, I am a mother, I am a domestic violence survivor, I'm an activist and I'm now an author, a self-published author of the book Neuroscience the Ecosystem of Domestic Violence. It's a research book that is about helping people understand how domestic violence as a whole affects us, not just, you know, just the couple in the picture, the abuser and the victim, but it also helps understand what's going on from the brain to societal levels, which includes, you know, congress, which includes politics, which includes going into school systems, which includes children, intergenerational violence, introducing, you know, only the abuser and victim, but also introducing the victim defendants. It talks about, you know, how our brains are affected through domestic violence as well. So it's a plethora of information that talks about domestic violence in its entirety.

Speaker 1:
1:53

You collaborated with a few individuals to write this book. Because of your experience Correct With okay.

Speaker 2:
2:02

So, yeah, it was a lot of different people from a lot of different backgrounds, which I thought was amazing, because I wanted people from you know the different socio-economical background. I wanted people from you know different age ranges, I wanted different you know ethnicities, everybody that plays a role, different professional backgrounds, which was the most important part, because you know, everybody has their own stance and from their own perspective. And I think one of the things that people don't understand, or I want to say ignore, is the experience. You know, we all have life lessons, we all have experiences, and I think that that's one of the things that I cherish about the interviewees, because they all have different types of experience, no matter how young, no matter how old they are, and they're very wise in their own, in their own way.

Speaker 2:
2:46

And so for me, I was able to obtain a psychologist, a sociologist. I was obtaining a victim defended I want to say not a coordinator, but she was a she's a director over the victim defended organization in Philadelphia. I have one as a victim I want to say a victim director of an organization, and I'm not saying it correctly, but you know, we had a CPS worker to children, to social workers and just a lot of people who put their input, you know, and to really get a whole understanding, and that also includes the warden of a correctional facility and a former police officer as well. So it's a lot of information I think that people would need to. I think would need to hear and also be amazed at understanding like, wow, this is what's happening throughout our entire system, Agreed.

Speaker 1:
3:37

And surely you had to get all that collaboration, because neuroscience is a huge thing, domestic violence, ecosystem Each of those portions of your title alone are just huge concepts, and domestic violence itself is completely multifaceted. There are so many things that influence the abuser, the victims and everything that happens in between, and so, yeah, of course, you had to collaborate with that individual.

Speaker 2:
4:07

Absolutely, and you know that's the thing too, even because I want to say, you know I'm not a neuroscientist, you know I am a domestic violence survivor who happened to do research and wanting to understand what happened to me while being in this abusive marriage that was for over nine years.

Speaker 2:
4:21

So I had to, I had to figure out what is going on.

Speaker 2:
4:25

And so for me, you know, getting the neuroscience information, that was through research, that was through this amazing organization called Pallagent, who enrolled me in their program and, along with the their wonderful mentor, isabella, who I just I'm very grateful for her and her experience, who is a neuroscience grad student, who helped guided me to understand the, the scientific methods and the process of that. And so for me, it was starting to research of different, you know, neuroscience, scientific literature reviews and going forth and understand the connection, the correlation between the brain and neuroscience and not even understanding that or not even knowing that this information existed until this research took place. So that was the big, you know, like the epiphany moment for me, I'll say having that, and then, in addition, with the interviews, and then I talk about my experience to tie it all together that I mean it was just. I felt like this. This book was mind blowing and I was just very proud of my work that being able to have this and now being able to share it with all of you, it's amazing.

Speaker 1:
5:30

And we appreciate that for sure, and I want to maybe kind of circle back to not discuss everything you figured out because we definitely want people to buy this book to.

Speaker 1:
5:42

Yes, but one of my favorite things to hear in these stories and it doesn't always happen is when someone who is a victim or was a victim of domestic violence, how they are able to turn themselves around and do something like this write a book and take their own experiences and learn an entire new concept of things in order to do this and I think that your story is incredible because you did come from abuse and into the success, and it's those stories that, I feel, give hope to those who are maybe listening and are still in those situations and think, well, what am I, how can I leave what, how can I succeed after I leave? So I'm not sure, would you like to share some of your story, to kind of show us where you came from, and then let's let's get to the climax of what you've discovered in this book.

Speaker 2:
6:41

Yeah, sure. So I'll start where I met my former abuser, and that was in college. I went to Tennessee State University and I met my husband in 2008 in a Spanish class, and I kind of you know, I want to say when I met him originally, you know it's or seeing, you know of someone or you see them around and I want to say that was kind of the circumstance in the beginning, because we were in the same class but we weren't friends and the thing was was that I was very close with my teacher, who I still am in touch with to this day, and she was happy to see me over the summer. She's like you know, I saw Daniel over the summer and my job, that I used to work at this restaurant and I remember learning out. He's like you know, it's expensive food and I used to left that because I used to say the same thing.

Speaker 2:
7:25

Well, as time progressed, there was this particular assignment where we had to do this particular Spanish rap, because we were learning again in Spanish and do this rap, and he noticed right away he's I'm not from the south and so for me, I'm from the East Coast. You go to school from a completely different environment. People pick up your accent right away oh, you're not from here, you're not from here. So for him he picked that up right away and after that we became very good friends. He would walk me to class and we would I mean, I would say it was really a good friend for me, I say at that time because I felt like he was there as a friend. He would talk all the time and go to different classes together. Wouldn't he help me with my car? So it was just like I just thought he was a great guy at the time. And the interesting thing was, I think about some of the things from back then and I remember a couple of women who weren't particularly keen on him, but I didn't see it because I was a great guy, he was just a really cool guy. And so over time, I'll say after I graduated, six weeks after I graduated from college, my mother committed suicide, and I feel that's a very important part to talk about, because that really took everything into a whole different turn.

Speaker 2:
8:42

After I graduated from college, I was planning to go to grad school, maybe go to the West Coast and start my life, and so that didn't happen, because my bachelor's degree is in communications. So that you know my thing was, I was ready to do that and then when my mother passed, everything, just kind of everything, went haywire and he was there again as a friend. He was there, he met my family members and some of them. They pretty much got along with them. But I will say my father at the time he picked up that he liked me and that I had no idea he had his own relationship and you know I was doing my own thing. So for me it was like I never dawned on that, like that he actually liked me until later on, when I ended up deciding to I wanted to go back to the East Coast.

Speaker 2:
9:30

I lived in the South at the time and I said this you know, going back to the East Coast, and you know I really wanted to get out of here because I wanted to really get my life together and not be in the South because my mother passed away in the South at the time. And he actually was saying you know I'm actually flying or I'm driving back to my home. You know why don't you come with me? And then you know you can run a car and drive, you know, back home, back home. And so I did that. And that's when a lot of things change, because, and the reason why I change and I'm leaving some part out, I'm going to tell you why in a minute. But I'm you know, my thing was OK you know I'm a good guy, let's go ahead, we're going to have fun.

Speaker 2:
10:14

And the thing was I ended up getting in touch with his cousin, who she ended up calling me and saying you know, you know he likes you. And I know I didn't like what you mean he likes me. He's like don't you have a girlfriend? He's like no, he likes you, he likes you. And while on that road trip I ended up confronting him and I said, hey, you know, your cousin said you like me and whatnot. And so he, even though I knew he had his girlfriend, the story changed. He's like you know, I do like you and whatnot, but you know I'm not really with her. You know we have really been together since February. You know it was and it's like OK, it's like.

Speaker 2:
10:46

And the thing was what made me consider it was like OK, why would he lie? Because I'm not thinking like at this point I'm doing for a year and a half, why would he lie? So you know, that kind of started off in that relationship. Now I'm leaving out parts of what made me turn to him, because now, because at the end of the day this is a lot of things happen in my family. They kind of changed the dynamic also, and the turn of events they kind of, I would say, leaned on him more as a friend. And I mean that because so after my mother's passing you know the burial there was some money that I had. I had gotten money from her former employer. And that was because what was happening was there was a non-exclusivity clause and with that clause there's a it's something where it's like, if certain jobs, if you happen to pass away a certain way, you can or cannot receive any money from that job. And that's how I reclaim some money, because you know it was a non-exclusivity Suicide was not, you know, considered. Hey, you can't receive money from that. So that's the best way. I'm trying to explain it off the top of my head. But anyway, and then family members were basically saying hey, you know, you have to pay me back for this, you have to pay me back for that.

Speaker 2:
11:59

And it went from that paying back for the funeral to okay, would you have to pay me back for what you owed me from when I paid for you when you were a child. It's like, wait a minute, hold up. You know, like you should have talked to my mother about that. You know, then I had no control over what you bought when I was a kid, that. So it became a lot, of, a lot of issues with my family.

Speaker 2:
12:19

And then also, in the same same token, I was still grieving my mother within the two months time period, and my father had called me and he said you know, you need to move on, you need to get over it. And I was so appalled, I was so offended, I was angry because it. You know, I was raised by my mother. It was raised by a single parent. My father did not raise me. So it was. You know how dare you say this about my mother. You never raised me. You know, she was the one that was my main caregiver.

Speaker 2:
12:47

So I was just so disgusted at that point that it turned, you know, me and my now my husband got really close. We got really close because I felt like, you know, I was alone in this. I was my mother's only child. I did not have my family to really that I could feel like I could be supported in this situation. And now I have a situation where I'm with this guy who I think is a great guy, I think he's a great friend, and now things are turning into this role romantic type of situation, because it did end up becoming this whole rolewind of a situation while during this road trip and while, you know, going visit his family and whatnot.

Speaker 2:
13:24

But I'll say that it turned into a different scenario because one thing I will say is that knowing someone who's an abuser as a friend is completely different than knowing someone that's an abuser being in a relationship. I had no idea that he was the kind of person that he was in that relationship, because as a friend, I thought he was wonderful, he was a really great guy, but he put on that charisma. He was able to I don't say to woo me, but he was able to be that person that shot that shoulder, to lean on that shoulder, to cry on. He was able to be that person and you know, for me that's what I needed at that time. So I feel like now, you know, looking back on those years, you know, and what I felt even then was that he was the first person, even though I leaned on him, and not only being in his home state, that was also the first time I felt unsafe. He was the first person I felt where, you know, we got into an argument. I didn't, I didn't have a way to get home, I didn't have a way to who's going to help me, and that was a feeling I could not shake. Being in his home state, like I felt safer in my area than where I was, compared to where he was living, where or not living, but where he would visit, because it was just a lot of things that was taken, that was that was happening.

Speaker 2:
14:36

I'm being very vague because I just some of this is a little traumatic. I'm to be honest. In some of it I, you know it's reliving it to tell the story. So, you know, bear with me. But the hardest thing for this was then not knowing how to get out of this. Even in the relationships I was not strong enough to have to get out of this type of relationship. I was not strong enough to really to really get out of this, because I felt like before my mother passed, I was a completely different person. I was very independent, I was ready to take on the world, and then, after her passing, it was like my whole life is gone, because my mother was part of my life, a big chunk of my life so, and everything that I was was her, and so it's just that for me that still takes its toll and for them to have this situation now and becoming a whole, another identity. Who is this person with this man? And he's not very nice as I thought he was. He's not this person that I thought he was and that also forwards to later on.

Speaker 2:
15:34

We ended up getting pregnant with my oldest son and he ended up having his own mental breakdowns, his own issues and whatnot. And from that moment I will say and this was 2009, I ended up having to be in this situation where, okay, I had to figure out how to get a job, get it, how to get my car, how to get my apartment, how to get everything all the square way. And I was able to manage that by myself within the seven months and I had everything ready. And the thing was that I there was an apartment who was I was rented to. Well, it was rented to me through, I'll say, consider a family friend or like a close person of our family who was a pastor in this community and we pretty much knew her. We knew her for a long time, we share mutual relatives, so this woman is a big part of my life as well, because she also eulogized my grandparents, my great aunt and my mother's funeral.

Speaker 2:
16:28

So it was, this was someone I thought I could go to, and the thing is is that with this situation, you know, he was dealing with his own situation, he was doing his own things, and then he ended up coming to live with me and my oldest, our oldest son, cause at that time I was pregnant, so we had our son, and then I'll say that, you know, when we got together and he moved back, he moved into the apartment with me. I had my child. A few moments later, we did talk about getting married, cause that was also one of the things that, when we first started dating, he was saying, in a few first weeks, yeah, you're going to be my wife. And at 22, this was all I'm in my early twenties I'm like, oh, wow, did you know he's, we're going to get married, I'm going to get married, you know that kind of thing. So it was just excited. So now, here we are, I'm, I think I'm 23 at this point and within a few months after having my child, the pastor calls to hey, look, you know, we waited until you had your child to you know and give you some time to you know, recuperate, but you guys have to either get married or he can't stay there. And so at this point I'm like okay, you know, this is my family. Now I got to figure this out. So we did end up getting married, got married in November, but of 2010.

Speaker 2:
17:46

And the one thing I will say is that I didn't. I experienced emotional and verbal abuse. It wasn't until the night before when I started dealing with physical and the first thing he had because it was an argument that night before and he pinned me down and he said I could do whatever I want to you because you'll be my wife now. I didn't know how to get out of that situation. I didn't know how I was going to make it to the next day and the thing was was like okay, I'm going to have to go through it. I didn't have any.

Speaker 2:
18:18

At this point, I was definitely estranged from my family. I was not in touch with hardly not hardly anybody really. And so now here's this coming, this situation, and he's turning into a whole, completely different person. Not to mention and I have to go backwards not to mention, he had asked my family, prior to us getting married, for the blessing, and this was a year before this happened, he asked for their blessing and one of my relatives said to them well, you can't have my blessing because she has to handle business. And what she meant by that was paying money. That's what this was.

Speaker 2:
18:55

And so when it happened, he was like she kept dogging my character, just destroying my character. Oh, she's a mature, she's this type of person and this and this and that and I heard half of it and I was so angry with her because it was like you're going to bash your sister's daughter. You know that to me I felt to someone you don't really know. And the thing is, looking also at that situation, is that you let this man know in so many ways that we don't protect her. And that's the thing that to this day, looking back on that, you're letting them know that we don't support, we're not helping, we're not involved in this, even though they did help later on in the years. But even still, you had literally gave this person the go ahead to hey, we don't protect her because anybody can tell you. If you have family members out there that you're in a situation like that, you never let them know that you don't support that because he ran with it. My ex-husband ran with that and then it also became more of an issue later on.

Speaker 2:
20:03

So I did go through the wedding. Going back, I did go through the wedding, I did get married, and trying to put on a brave face after a night like that, it was just, it was startling, it was just like trying to suppress everything and trying to put on this happy face. And I was not happy. I did not like my wedding. I was, you know, to me, I felt it was a mediocre wedding and I felt that the wedding was not. You know, it was not something that a little girl that dreams of, that. This is what I wanted, you know. Not to mention, my mother was passed on and she was the one that wanted to walk me down the aisle. So it was. So here I am in this emotional state and trying to smile and trying not to cry and trying to have all of these things, you know, together. And you know, for me, over the time, you know, it was just going through the motions, not only going through with my ex-husband but also still grieving my mother's passing.

Speaker 2:
20:53

And I'll say that after the marriage, the first incident was three weeks after we got married and that was when I don't even remember the argument, but we got into it and I remember walking out the room to go into the kitchen and he runs out of there and he pushes against me against the wall and he rips my left shirt and that shirt was my mother's shirt and it was just constant argument after argument after argument after argument and I remember the first time, like then, in the midst of that, he was also getting acquainted with this pastor and he was getting acquainted with different members of that community, of that organization, and some of those people kind of had a little bad blood with my family because it wasn't always the greatest situation. However, that's when, when he would vent to them, that was another moment where they would say oh well, you know, danielle and her family, that's crazy, you know they're crazy and that kind of thing. So it was just like they gave him more ammunition to work with. And that's when I'd say, in my opinion, that's when, down the line, he was the first one to file the restraining order against me. He took my son for four days and had the restraining order, because they were also the ones that influenced him to do that and coming to find out I had to go through this court as a victim. I had no understanding what is going on Because, in my opinion, I'm feeling like I'm being the one that's abused. I've had in my head. He's headbutting me while I'm having a big old night and I'm embarrassed to go outside. The arguments are constant.

Speaker 2:
22:24

It was just constant chaos for me, and this was in the beginning of the marriage, and for me, I felt that, you know, I'd be going through the court, going through the judge. I'm in this whirlwind, I don't know what's going on. I couldn't eat, couldn't really deal with anything, and one of my aunts, who I ended up eventually getting in touch with, was there and she's like you know, daniel, while I was going through this court, she's like you didn't stand up for yourself when I went into the courtroom. Basically, I ended up being in this courtroom and this judge was like, well, you need to do visitation, you can do this and this and that, and now I'm just like what's going on? And that is why mine said that, hey, you didn't say anything, you didn't stick up for yourself, because I didn't know what I was expecting, I didn't know what to do, and this woman who, I think, after that court hearing I went to. I want to see a judge, I want to see this person right now, I want to have an urgent hearing.

Speaker 2:
23:16

And there was a domestic violence division in one of the courts and this woman and to this day and I've seen her recently and to this day I said you are my hero, name is Sue, and she was over the domestic violence division and she said you know, to even to basically put everything on an equal footing, you have to file a restraining order Because you're a domestic violence victim. And she explained to me pretty much what was going on and one of the things I said I'm my son's main caregiver. I don't know why he took my son for four days To this day I still don't know and she ended up calling his mother and she said you know what? She said you have until 7.30 to bring that child back home, or you're going to be in contempt of court and you're going to be arrested. And she brought. She came back with my son and it was just like wow, and even then with the case and still we still had this restraining order thing going on.

Speaker 2:
24:12

Both of us and the judge found him more reliable than me Because at the time I wasn't available, get up in the same field. I wasn't as a good storyteller the way he was, I wasn't as good as a speaker. As he was Very charismatic, knew what he was talking about, knew how he'd say it For me. I'm just like I don't know what's going on. I'm trying to figure this out. This is what's happening. This is how he's acting, but I'm flustered and I'm upset. So it's not taking into consideration either, because then, looking at him as OK, well, he's well put together and he knows what he's talking about, so he must be the victim that was not true. So even then, we still got back together.

Speaker 2:
24:53

Throughout that time and this was over a period of years it was like almost every other year we were filing restraining orders there was some sort of chaotic situation, some sort of abusive situation. One of the two ones I will talk about that I feel are very important for people to understand is the 2016 incident, and that was when my ex-husband had begun to some argument that earlier that day it was just him just trying to destroy my character and just talking about me. I mean the way that he talked. It was degrading, it was disgusting. You're talking to someone like your trash type of way, and that evening I didn't want to talk to him anymore, just like I'm sick of this, because over the years of going back and forth, I would go back and forth between him and my family and that was hard, having to deal with that as well. Going back to which is the lesser of two evils, which is the easier of the two situations at that point, because I couldn't deal with him or having the restraining orders or dealing with all of these other things, whether I would file or he would file, or I'm calling CPS or he's calling CPS. So it was always a tip for tax type of situation, because I literally just wanted him to get some help. I wanted my family, I wanted this family to work, I wanted my children to work with two children, but it was more of a for him. I feel like it was more retaliatory and that's where I had the constant back and forth. So it was for me having to have evidence and whatnot.

Speaker 2:
26:26

But anyway, in 2016, so that particular evening, I think I was watching what I get married or trying to watch that or something, and trying to talk to me, and it's just, I'm not trying to have. I'm not trying to hear it, I don't want to be bothered. And we get into this argument and I end up grabbing the bottle and I tried to hit the wall with it and it didn't break Because it was just like get away from me, get away from me. And the thing is is that I say that because this is a situation where people don't understand. Yet you have laws, you have all these things, but here's the thing about it you don't know what you're going to be up against in that situation. We all wear the mask and we all side, we all polite, but when it comes to your life, what do you want to do? That's the thing. What are you going to do in that scenario? If someone is abusive and is keen to put their hands on you, what do you want to do? To fight back? And in that moment, that's what I did. So it's not the fact that it is what, it is bottom line.

Speaker 2:
27:24

So at that moment he's fighting back and forth and he ends up going to the kitchen to get a knife, a butcher knife, and he gets this knife. I'm trying to get out it because, I see it, he yanks me back from the back of my collar yanks me back and I fell and he locks the door and he has the knife to my neck and I remember scratching me, wear it on my chest. It looks like Wolverine scratch and I'm seeing his blood and whatnot. And I remember at one point he had it to my, to my neck, and then he got me up and then he has a knife to my, my face. He's like do you want to divorce? And there was a third person and you know said you know, put the knife down, put the knife down. He puts the, he puts the knife. Now push them off as far as I could, because I want him off me fighting again. He gets the night, not nothing, if he gets the, the iron, the iron that you used to iron the clothes At that point.

Speaker 2:
28:15

This was, this was January of 2016 and if anybody knows how, that time, it was very cold, it was, you know, it was freezing outside. So I didn't have my coat, I didn't have my, you know, I didn't have my boots. On those socks. I ran out there with a shirt, pants and that was it. Hairs all over the place. Nothing, you know.

Speaker 2:
28:36

And, long story short, he chases me down the stairs with this iron like he's gonna bash my head and I end up running outside and someone said, runs, exact. And I ran in zigzag on this hill. He ran, he fell and I ran to actual a high school friend of mine who lived in the same complex as I did and I banged on her door and you know she sees me now because she's like, oh, my god, like she knew. You know she, we knew each other since high school, so at this point we knew each other for a good long time and she's seeing me like in this disarray and scared, and and I remember that they called the police at the point, the cops ends up taking me down to the station and because he had someone else there, they told him oh, there was no knife, there was no. So now is their word against my because he has a witness, so he was able to file the restraining against me first.

Speaker 2:
29:28

And the thing was is that when you are filing, especially New Jersey, if you file for it's the first come, first serve. So whoever gets it first that against other person and you, basically, you have to get out the house. You don't have access to the children. You have to. You know you, basically whatever you can get. You have to get police escort One time, maybe twice, to go get your clothes and whatnot and to until you actually have a hearing for the domestic violence. That point you know we both had our attorneys and I had to.

Speaker 2:
29:56

You know we had pretty much a one-week-all, one-week-off situation with the kids and you know, for that, you know I was thankful that were minds was saying that you know you want it one week one when we also they can see who's actually the responsible parent here. And so when it came to my children, you know they were in school on time, their clothes were looking good, like everything was normal. When it came to him picking up and taking them school, it was like 12 o'clock in that afternoon, 2 o'clock in the afternoon, their clothes, I mean, it was just crazy to the point where the schools end up calling CPS to get involved because it was just, you know, constant. But seeing, the thing is like in the state of New Jersey, if you don't have, you know they're not six and they're not in kindergarten, you don't have to, it's optional.

Speaker 2:
30:39

So I had to fight that as well, you know, and so it's like he kind of he knew what he was doing and and that kind of I'll say that incident really kind of got me to alright, I'm one foot in, one foot out, because we did reconcile and I said look, this is the last time I said we do this again, you gotta get some therapy. I'm not doing this, you know. And as if this doesn't work, we're one and we happen to get divorced and Then after that you know, the records are also the reconciliation it still wasn't easy because I couldn't trust them. I, you know, calling the devil and I didn't know when the devil will show up. I felt safest when I was, when my children were around. Then him and you know, me and him together.

Speaker 2:
31:19

So and that again, and it happened all over again, you know, in that same cycle and and that's led to the incident of the last incident, which was May 20 of 2018 and what took place was when he basically had my son out to my older son till four o'clock in the morning and when he had him out till four o'clock in the morning, my younger son is asleep, like I'm asleep. He's not answering his phone, the phones off, you know, and it's like why do you have my child so four o'clock in the morning. You know he needs to be sleep. I don't care what you do, but bring my, bring my son home, and when sort of taking places, he ends up coming back, of course we get into our argument after that. And my son, he's going to go into the room and sleep. And I Confirm myself because he's basically you're with your mistress at this point, because there's no reason to be out here four o'clock in the morning. You know, to me that kind of thing You're not working.

Speaker 1:
32:12

What are you?

Speaker 2:
32:12

doing, you know, and especially with my son, or older son, and and that led to him trying to pin me down, trying to frighten all those other things. And my youngest son, who was four at the time, he gets up and I just think like stay back, stay back. And you know I didn't want him in the room. So my son ended up getting his End up like he just watched me getting pinned down because I didn't want near. But even in the middle of the argument, because there was another person in the room at that point and my son is raising his hands up and while the middle is argument, I felt like he in his own way trying to de-escalate because One of us would pick him up and we wouldn't be as argumentative as when he was picked up versus when it was just me and him. And then, you know, at the same time calling all types of names, saying all these insults, and they get to a point where I'm sitting down, my son, and send down this other person sitting down and he said you know I can kill you with my bare hands. And he's doing this motion, this hand motion towards me and my son is staring at him. He said you know I can't do it because he's watching. That was the moment I said I'm done, I don't care if I have to crawl out this marriage, I'm done. And you, I stole my phone Today. I don't know where I phone went, you know. It's just. It's over the years of me Having to run to friends, to family, you know, asking for, trying to get out of the situation, going back and forth to to court, all these things, not feeling protected, asking someone to protect me. And it took my four-year-old son in. At that point I don't, if I can't do it for myself to get out of damn sure going to get out for my children. And that's where everything was just like I'm done. You know I'm done, I'm gonna fight this end.

Speaker 2:
33:53

So the next day I had my seventh yes, my seventh restraining order, final restraining order because of New Jersey, which is actually one of the strongest in the country. That is, that you go from a temporary to a final and final is forever. Some states are like maybe one year, two years, what not? Jersey is forever. And then if you go to another state, then they have to oblige to the jerseys actual restraining order. So Jersey is very powerful when it comes to the restraining order out here, but For me, I did file my last one.

Speaker 2:
34:24

You know, cps got involved as well, and the thing is is that, you know, I also had to deal with the fact that one he stopped paying rent he's not paying all these things three months prior so that he could leave a zestitute. And, not to mention, I was also in the middle of filing for my divorce because I didn't have any money at that point. So I had to learn the terminology and filed for my own divorce, won my divorce, everything I asked for pretty much, and I still, you know, was able to get it. Still, you know, I I don't want to say still was able to get the things I needed for my family. However, because he stopped paying all these bills and everything, we ended up becoming homeless, and so we ended up living at the bottom of a basement of a bar shop, because even when I was trying to work and get myself to hustle and get this money, it wasn't enough and time ran out, and this was all before my sons were starting school.

Speaker 2:
35:22

And the thing was that, even though I didn't have the people that I wanted to support, there were amazing people who did come into play, and I think Nisha, who was part of the Grove Foundation, excel, with Carol a lot of different people who helped A lot of different friends from my son's schools. Their parents were amazing during that time and the thing was that I wanted to make sure that, even though we were going through this why didn't I want us to look like we were going through it? So even at night I would get our clothes, or throughout the day, while they were in school, I was getting our stuff out of there, getting evicted and getting washing the clothes by hand and having the fan on, but by day, they're going to school like it's normal. They're going to school like everything is like, and that's how I wanted to, because this was traumatic for all of us.

Speaker 2:
36:10

And the thing is is that even though it's been years since I've been out of it, it's still not over. It's still fighting. What has happened, it still is things that are still. I want to say that's still not happening, but it's the fact that the ramifications my oldest has the memories. My younger one may not, but the thing is, how do we deal with that? They're also growing up too, and not only was this my ex-husband, this was their father.

Speaker 2:
36:39

So now it's creating a space not only for me to help, but creating a space for them to heal and to acknowledge their own pain and saying to them that you know what. You have every right to love him. You have every right to care for him. You have every right to pray for him. You can be angry with him, whatever you feel. That is your right. And to have them feel safe to have those feelings and to talk to me and say, look, this is how I feel and this is what I want you to talk about, or whatnot.

Speaker 2:
37:05

So this is why I'm doing what I do, because I know what my children went through. I know what I went through. I work alone. I don't do this with others Because, at the end of the day, nobody can tell your story like you. Nobody can talk about your story and know the ins and outs of it like you can.

Speaker 2:
37:24

So for me, that's what led me to wanting to understand this book, or started this book, because what I did, I started advocating, I started really seeing as a survivor now a survivor when I was a victim I was going through the lens, just going through the tunnel, the tunnel vision, and I couldn't see everything out and then having to say everything I went through and it's like, oh my God, I really went through this and then advocating and start talking about it. Where I've met with different politicians, where I've met with different organizations and talked about it or talked at different events. One of the things I was met with was I'm so sorry, I'm praying for you and whatnot, and that's all well and good, but that's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for change.