Dec. 19, 2023
Kathy's Tale of Resilience Beyond Domestic Turmoil I Ep. 27
Welcome back to Kathy from episodes 1 and 2. In ths episode she shares what she has learned as a DV survivor.
Check out Kathy's profile on the 1 in 3 website: https://www.1in3podcast.com/guests/Kathy/
1 in 3 is intended for mature audiences. Episodes contain explicit content and may be triggering to some.
If you are in the United States and need help right now, call the national domestic violence hotline at 800-799-7233 or text the word “start” to 88788.
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Thank you for listening!
Cover art by Laura Swift Dahlke
Music by Tim Crowe
00:00 - Understanding Domestic Violence and Attracting Abusers
21:33 - Recognizing and Healing From Abusive Relationships
32:51 - Challenges and Impact of Domestic Abuse
44:41 - Trust, Overanalysis, and Personal Growth
WEBVTT
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Hi Warriors, welcome to 1 in 3, I'm your host, Ingrid.
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I have brought you multiple stories involving domestic violence.
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Unfortunately, some who have escaped the trauma may be left with a sense of hopelessness.
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The abuse may continue past the end of the relationship, especially when children are involved.
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Throughout her lifelong struggle with domestic abuse from her mother into later romantic relationships, Cathy wondered why this kept happening to her.
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Listen as she shares what years of research and self-reflection have helped her learn about domestic violence victims.
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I realised after my last journey through abuse.
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It went to court and he lied and there was no justice.
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And that was probably my lowest, lowest, lowest point in all the abuse that I had been through throughout my life.
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To see that there was no accountability for his actions was just devastating.
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I then took the opportunity to reflect on my life and to try and work out how I kept ending up in these situations.
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What was it that kept me attracting these people?
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Now, there were obvious reasons, like with my mother, who was my first abuser.
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I realised, probably in my 30s, that she was mentally unwell, so that was a factor for the abuse.
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She was definitely narcissistic and she had multiple personality disorder.
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She was very aggressive and very violent, so I understood her in that she couldn't control that behaviour.
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It took me until my 30s, but I realised that she needed help and until she got help, I wasn't going to have a relationship with her anymore.
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My physical abuser it was don't get me wrong, there was still verbal abuse there, but that was so in my face.
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I knew when I was going to cop it, because there were triggers, there were signs that he would just lose it and I would end up on the end of his fist or whatever.
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So I could predict that.
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And certainly after that relationship I could spot someone who was physically abusive a mile away.
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Certain mannerisms, certain ways that they spoke.
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I just went, whoa, okay, now I see that and I'll steer clear of that.
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With the last relationship it was more sneaky and I did not understand the power of psychological abuse, coercive control and emotional abuse.
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I just didn't realise that that was even a factor and that, for me, played out.
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That's where my learning started to take place.
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I really started to look at the characteristics of these people that I'd been in relationships with.
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So I wanted to know why I kept attracting them.
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And it was quite simple really.
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At the end of the day I realised I was attracting them because I didn't understand the indicators for that abuse.
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I accepted my mother's behaviour because she was my mother and I thought I wanted a relationship with her more than I wanted anything.
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So I accepted that for way too long.
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My second relationship I stayed in that because my need to have a family overwrote my own self value.
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And my third relationship I simply stayed in it because I didn't understand what it was and I kept fighting to get that because when it was good, it was really good and I just believed that it would stay that way.
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So I kept fighting for that and I stayed in that for way too long because I had this belief and I realised through my study I actually healed myself which was so powerful.
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Looking at the reasons why I attracted these people, firstly, they need somebody who is extremely forgiving.
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So you have to be someone who is it sounds terrible, but easily manipulated.
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Because of your very loving, forgiving nature, they feel like they can manipulate you into any situation, they can excuse any situation and you will accept it until, of course, you don't, and then it's all your fault.
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So I mean that you play a role in this is really really hard, but you do, in that you deserve somebody who is as equally loving, giving, caring as you are.
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And if you don't have that, if you start excusing those red flags in the beginning, it will just escalate and you will keep attracting that person, or just their behaviour will get more and more and more.
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And that goes for any relationship, that goes for friendships, it goes for work, colleagues, family and, you know, personal relationships.
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So you can have an abuser in any given situation.
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So, understanding that you and your boundaries play a role in this, because, if you, I'm not saying that you deserve it, not by any means.
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Nobody deserves to be abused or taken advantage of but this person saw your ability to love as a weakness.
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They saw you as somebody easy to control and manipulate and dominate, and that's what they did.
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I think we accept these situations for a lot of reasons.
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I've spoken to a lot of domestic violence victims and it ranges from I need to stay because when I go, that person will abuse, when my children visit, they will be abused, so they stay to protect their children.
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People stay, like my own reasons, because I valued, I wanted that relationship or I valued that nucleus more than I did myself.
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People stay because of pets, you know.
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I know one lady had 12 horses and she said what do I do?
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Where do I go?
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I can't go anywhere.
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Don't tell me to go, don't tell me to leave, because my life, you know, so I just can't do it.
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People stay for many, many, many different reasons and unless you've walked in their shoes, you won't understand why they stay.
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But I can tell you that if we can stop people from getting into those relationships in the first place.
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That is the key.
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And to do that, I think we need to work on our own self.
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We need to work on our own boundaries and, to start off with, you really need to understand who you are.
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So what are your highest core values?
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If you choose three of your highest core values, you want to find that the person that you're with has the same, because your values drive your behaviour.
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They drive who you are inside.
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And if your highest value is commitment and this person never wants to get married, I mean sure they might change their mind one day.
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But why are you wasting your time when there's the right person out there who definitely wants commitment?
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You know we need to be on the same page as our partner with our values.
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That's the first thing that you need to look for.
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And then you need to do have a look at.
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Don't just miss the red flags.
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And if the red flags come in, if they're really good at hiding it and they come in six, seven years into the relationship, when you're settled, you know you've bought a house, you have a couple of children and all of a sudden you've woken up with a monster who's just been able to keep it, then you're going to want to stay and that's why they do it Some of them.
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That's why they do it.
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That's even then.
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That's when you need to have your boundaries.
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That's when you need to say no.
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No, you have a choice in this.
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If you're going to treat me this way, I'm not going to put up with it.
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So now I'm going to put it back on you change your behavior or let them go and grow.
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Abuses will behave in very different ways.
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They're not all the same.
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They're not all painted with the same brush.
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Like you will have somebody who is outright nasty.
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Like you, meet them and they're talking to their partner like absolute garbage.
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And I don't discriminate between male and female either.
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There are some really nasty, nasty women out there who keep their children from the father and then say that it's a father's problem, and these children grow up without their dad because this person is just cruel, for one of the better word they use are children as pawns.
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You know, I just I honestly think, recognizing those red flags, knowing what they are, knowing what emotional abuse, psychological abuse and coercive control, knowing those indicators and being very aware of it, I probably swung the other way, where I saw everyone in this light of, oh, you know you're.
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Oh, I can see some emotional abuse there and I became really quite judgy.
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Thankfully, I've swung back into the middle now and I realized that we're all.
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There are people out there that are operating through their own experiences that don't have the capacity to meet you at the same level, and that's okay.
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That doesn't mean that they won't.
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That's not abuse the red flags that you have to view them, see them for what they are and then act on it.
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But also be prepared that some people make mistakes and they can change that behavior.
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And that's one of the biggest lessons that I learned is that an abuser will not change.
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They'll tell you they're going to change, but they will come back and they will do that behavior in a different way.
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Say, if they're financially abusive.
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When you meet them, you know you might just think they're excuse my language, but think they're a tight ass, you know, but in actual fact they're quite financially controlling and it gets into your relationship where it affects what you do.
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You might be able to say to them you know, this is going to destroy our relationships.
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That needs to change.
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And they go okay, I can change.
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And all of a sudden you see that they're letting go and they're being less financially abusive, but then they start being verbally abusive.
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So an abuser will often switch areas to keep you off guard, to keep you guessing what they're doing.
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It's all.
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Sometimes it's just this game that they play in.
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You are so confused and confusion is actually a sign that you are being abused.
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If you're confused in your relationship, if you don't understand why they're talking to you this way, why they're upset, why you can never please them, if you have confusion, that is definitely an indicator that you are in an abusive situation.
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I think we need to teach our children red flags.
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I think we need to teach our children what they call values are.
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We need for them to have a very healthy, supportive lifestyle of themselves so that they attract to them a person that is going to love them the way that they deserve.
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Often we will attract people if we have really strong, firm boundaries.
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We won't attract an abuser.
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We might for a minute, but we will quickly see it and our energy will just be like go away, you know, and they won't come any closer.
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I found that I just don't have that anymore.
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I'll see them and I'll quickly think, yeah, I don't want anything to do with you and I'll remove myself from that situation.
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That doesn't mean that I won't give it a bit more time.
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I went through and I actually learnt and the different types of narcissists that are out there, which I never knew.
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That was a huge eye-opener for me to see the different types of people.
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One of them is very outgoing, like really outgoing.
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So the life of the party and love bombs you, all the things that women think oh, this person just absolutely adores me.
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They put me on this pedestal.
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But one of the indicators with them is that they can't have deep and meaningful conversations.
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So if you ever get into and life will do this to you, you know you'll get into trouble times.
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This person can't be there for you.
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They just can't be completely there for you, or they'll switch and they'll become nasty, you know so that they can't sustain that love bombing.
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Because that's exactly what it is.
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It's love bombing.
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It's not love at first sight, which I do believe in, to be honest, but the love bombing is.
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It's not a sustainable behaviour.
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So they'll do it for as long as they, until they get you, and then the phone calls will stop, or the gifts will stop, or the.
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You know even the way, the nice way they speak to you will stop.
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So, understanding that abusers will use different methods and knowing all of those methods will keep you aware of if you're attracting the wrong person into your life.
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So I do a little presentation where I go through.
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You know what the definition of an abuser is, what types of people make up an abusive relationship.
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So you can have two narcissists in a relationship.
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That will be explosive.
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I've actually seen it.
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They just bounce off each other and it's like whoa, why are you guys?
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Even you know, but they're happy being miserable together.
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So you know that's their choice.
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Do you think an abuser can change?
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Well, I do think that an abuser can change, but it has to be.
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They have to sustain the change.
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I've seen somebody do it and I've also seen people who can't, just cannot and will never change.
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But they have to sustain that change for themselves and they have to consistently not do it.
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So if you're with somebody who's an alcoholic, for example, and they drink because they've had a lot of tragedy and they can't, they numb themselves, I can't stand it anymore.
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So they just keep drinking and you say to them this relationship is is going to finish, if you don't stop drinking because you know it's affecting us and that person stops, so they're abusive while they're drinking, but then all of a sudden they stop and they change that behavior, that can actually happen.
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But then there are people that are born narcissistic.
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Well, the jury's out with their born narcissistic or something happens and they shut down.
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I don't really know how they become narcissistic.
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I don't really.
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It doesn't what's the word.
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I don't really care how they become narcissistic.
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I just see them as people that are out to the world, owes them something.
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But in a perfect world we would have an island where we could.
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We could just put all these narcissistic people and say go on, fight to be the leader, fight to be the top one, treat each other the way that you want to, but leave us alone.
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I also do like what role we play, as I said before, you know, with our boundaries and being this overly loving, overly giving, overly forgiving person with the right person.
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There's nothing wrong with that if they're giving you the same.
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I don't mean that they have to be the same as you, but you have to have.
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It has to be reciprocated.
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I go through what are red and green flags when you're dating, and I also have a red and green flag quiz and I've had people that have had all green flags and I've had people that have had a couple of green and I'm like, well, that's.
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You know what you need to work on and you know, you can see the area within your relationship that needs some work, and all relationships go through hard times, it doesn't matter how good they are.
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They all have ups and downs, because that's just life.
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But understanding whether it's abusive or not really really helps, and whether or not you can accept what those red flags are, it's a deal breaker for you, because we all have our own deal breakers.
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We all have our different things that we will accept.
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You know, some people will never, ever, ever accept somebody cheating, whereas other people are happy to introduce other people into their relationships.
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So we're all different and I think that we need to take that into account as well when we're looking into relationships.
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And then I've got how do you help yourself or someone to leave safely?
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I truly believe that we can if we educate our children around the areas of abuse and what abuse looks like and what a healthy relationship looks like.
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That's where we really need to start.
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That's where we need to change the mindset of beautiful, loving people and what they deserve and who they need to be with.
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We often I realize that an empath is drawn to a narcissist because we have a deep desire instinctually to help people, to fix them, and we see in them what's missing and we think that we can help, and that is just.
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I look at that now and I think why do I want somebody I need to fix?
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No, I don't, I don't need anybody that I need to fix.
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I want somebody that will come to me with their A game and I will come to them with my A game.
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That doesn't mean physically like I suffer terribly at the moment from headaches, but I still know that I'm enough to have somebody in my life that will bring their A game and I have a lot to give someone.
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So that I hope that doesn't sound arrogant.
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I don't mean for it to, but I just think that we all have a lot to give people and give it to the right person.
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Give it to somebody that will respect it, cherish it and love it, because you only get one heart and you need someone who's going to look after that.
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I mentioned that my mother was extremely violent, that she was extremely or extremely abusive.
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Yes, she was violent.
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She was abusive to my father from a very young age.
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I can remember them fighting and they both end up with black eyes.
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And my father said to me recently how ashamed he was that he actually hit a woman.
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My father's a very honourable man and he said I've never hit a woman since.
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And I said to him Dad, have you heard of reactive abuse?
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He said I would hit her when she'd hit me.
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I said do you think that maybe that was you protecting yourself Like?
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I think people can push you to a point past what you believe that you are capable of, and I think he was a classic example of.
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Should he have walked away?
00:24:00.092 --> 00:24:00.952
Absolutely?
00:24:00.952 --> 00:24:03.806
Should he have hit her back?
00:24:03.806 --> 00:24:05.710
No, he shouldn't have.
00:24:05.710 --> 00:24:10.987
But did she push him to a point where he lost himself?
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I believe so, and you'd have to know my mother to know what that was like, because it was extremely, extremely toxic that she would do that.
00:24:25.259 --> 00:24:51.305
I don't by any means advocate men hitting women, because I think we are the smaller sex, but I do know that with reactive abuse you can do things that you would never normally do, like I know that in one of my relationships I would slam a door and swear and call him names to shut it down.
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Now I don't speak to anyone like that.
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Well, I do, obviously, but that was the only circumstance that I've ever spoken to anyone like that and it took me a long time to forgive myself for that.
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I realized I was the nutty one.
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You know that I was the issue in the relationship.
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It's crazy how they can push people to a point where you do and say things that you normally wouldn't, and being able to forgive yourself for that and realizing it was just part of it.
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I mean, I've known of abusers that drink drive and they've gotten their partner, who would never drink drive, to drive them home when they've had too many to drink.
00:25:38.971 --> 00:25:48.298
And then it's their way of saying, see, you're as bad as I am, so that they can get you on that level playing field.
00:25:48.298 --> 00:25:58.904
So reactive abuse is a real thing that they will use against you to make you feel like you are just as bad as they are.
00:25:58.904 --> 00:26:03.479
But it is just reactive abuse.
00:26:03.479 --> 00:26:05.085
It's not you being abusive.
00:26:05.085 --> 00:26:10.759
You need to look at your other relationships and see whether you like that in any others as well.
00:26:10.759 --> 00:26:45.502
So I mean, as I said before, I actually heal myself from doing all of this research and knowing the whole circle of abuse and what's in it, and people present themselves differently in that abusive arena and they can be abusive in many different ways, in many different ways on any given day, and it's just knowing what you've got in front of you.
00:26:45.502 --> 00:26:50.919
So, yeah, I'm very proud of what I've created.
00:26:51.160 --> 00:27:08.775
From what I've been through and knowing those red and green flags will certainly help anyone to be able to navigate their relationship, to see what it's like and see.
00:27:08.775 --> 00:27:11.882
They're just basic questions that you know.
00:27:11.882 --> 00:27:16.771
When you look at it, you'll be able to see if that person is.
00:27:16.771 --> 00:27:29.614
It's a series of 50 questions 52, sorry and by the end of it you'll see if you've got a balanced relationship or not.
00:27:29.614 --> 00:27:32.279
Yes, well, I also.
00:27:32.279 --> 00:27:37.492
I had somebody say to me oh, it makes me look at myself too.
00:27:37.492 --> 00:27:40.240
You know what I'm doing in this relationship.
00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:46.198
So it not only do you look at the person that you're with, but you look at your own behavior as well.
00:27:47.461 --> 00:27:50.228
Definitely yes, and I have.
00:27:50.228 --> 00:28:04.271
Actually, I have a friend who just recently reached out to me and she had been in a previously verbally, emotionally, financially abusive relationship and she just messaged me and she said you're never going to believe it.
00:28:04.271 --> 00:28:06.137
I just broke up with another one.
00:28:06.137 --> 00:28:07.663
I got into it again.
00:28:07.663 --> 00:28:10.833
She's very intelligent, she's been through therapy.
00:28:10.833 --> 00:28:25.615
She actually knew this individual's ex from years ago who had described all of this, and she didn't believe that ex at the time and I said don't beat yourself up, you know, they're very, they know what they're doing.
00:28:26.655 --> 00:28:39.792
And yes, and I said you know, although you're coming from experience and therapy and a lot of self-evaluation and a lot of self-reflection and you think I will never put up with that again.
00:28:39.792 --> 00:28:56.054
At the same respect, I think those of us who have been through this trauma are also wanting to prove like I can find I'm capable of loving again and I can find that person who is supposed to love me the way they're supposed to love me.
00:28:56.054 --> 00:29:02.559
And you may, like you said, overlook some of these red flags or even perhaps compare it to.
00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:12.410
Well, this guy or girl or whomever, is not doing things as badly as the previous partner, so maybe it's not that big of a red flag.
00:29:14.574 --> 00:29:31.964
I think in your friend's case, what I would be looking at is that she recognised it in the second go, you know, and the more we do that, the better we become at realising hey, no, I'm just.
00:29:31.964 --> 00:29:36.196
I'm just not doing this, you know you will.
00:29:36.196 --> 00:29:51.679
I attract abuses again, absolutely like they're everywhere and but they're not going to stay in my field for long because I have too much self-respect to allow that to happen anymore.
00:29:51.679 --> 00:29:57.715
And I think I think that's the difference you can want and we all deserve.
00:29:57.715 --> 00:30:01.462
I don't believe anyone is meant to be on this planet alone.
00:30:01.462 --> 00:30:13.844
That's just my opinion, and we all deserve healthy, loving relationships and I think I'm not going to stop until I find that person.
00:30:13.844 --> 00:30:20.246
And it's not going to be perfect I mean, no relationship is perfect but there will be no abuse.
00:30:20.246 --> 00:30:20.949
That's the difference.
00:30:23.316 --> 00:30:25.502
And yes, and that's the big, the big difference.
00:30:25.502 --> 00:30:30.217
And, like you said, as long as that other person is reciprocating.
00:30:30.217 --> 00:30:38.768
So if you feel that, oh, this, this new partner did not communicate well with me, communicate well with me, that's a red flag, or am I being too judgy or what is it?
00:30:38.768 --> 00:30:49.019
But if you bring that, if you're able to communicate with that individual and say this isn't working for me, and they, they think, oh my gosh, I didn't even recognise I was doing that, let me fix that.
00:30:49.019 --> 00:30:52.452
And as long as you're working together, then it's okay.
00:30:53.555 --> 00:30:54.696
Let me fix that.
00:30:54.696 --> 00:30:57.583
That is such a powerful statement.
00:30:57.583 --> 00:31:04.724
Somebody who owns their behaviour, like, for example, there.
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